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Post by Del on Oct 30, 2019 12:19:54 GMT
Out of interest,how many corners did we have in the first half of last nights match ? Every corner we took was the same,to the back post. How imaginative is that ?
Is Matt so fixed in his ideas that he can't change anything ?
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billy
1st team skipper
Posts: 2,626
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Post by billy on Oct 30, 2019 12:27:00 GMT
At what point did the millionaire property developer start pilfering our players,over what time span and how many players ?
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Post by sallycat on Oct 30, 2019 14:23:35 GMT
Still not sure I buy in to the argument that we can’t afford to sack the Manager. I actually am starting to believe we can’t afford NOT to sack the Manager. The way results are going and the team are performing we are headed for a very very bad season and I have seen very few comments on here from contributors who believe otherwise. The financial impacts of being relegated would outweigh any settlement of Matt’s contact though of course changing the Manager does not guarantee survival. Such action would, however, give us a chance of survival where under the current leadership that is starting to look most unlikely. If that is the case we should accept that the Manager will have to go and act decisively and quickly. The alternative is what? We hang on to a Manager into relegation and beyond to next year who has no track record and shows no sign of being able to turn things round until his contract expires? That seems unlikely so why not change what is clearly not working and do so now. What makes you so sure that sacking the manager would prevent us from being relegated? Dos worked without pay. Who do you think we could afford to bring in who would turn things around quickly enough to save our season? Bearing in mind the other clubs at the bottom of the league will also be doing all they can to avoid the drop - and several of them with significantly more money than us.
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Post by pinewalker on Oct 30, 2019 16:37:55 GMT
Out of interest,how many corners did we have in the first half of last nights match ? Every corner we took was the same,to the back post. How imaginative is that ? Is Matt so fixed in his ideas that he can't change anything ? 13 corners in the whole match and the same number on Saturday. One goal and and one other goal bound attempt. Nearly all taken by Milsom until the second half yesterday and most way over-hit. The one we scored from was hit at waist height and volleyed in by Omar. That begins to look like a mishit because the same corner was not attempted v Halifax. What is really annoying is that Milsom seems incapable of delivering a corner to land mid goal - but that being true - his colleagues should be in position for the over hit ball, to head it back into the goalmouth. They never are. It would have Sunday league manager tearing his hair out. Irony in the photo accompanying the match report of Dan Matsusaka getting up for one of the over-hit corners is the name on the back of one shirt. Staunton. Perhaps the best corner-taker of all time Steve (Stan) Staunton fired one straight in - only to see it described in a Sunday paper as lucky. He got the writer down from the press box before the next game and stood him in the keeper's position. 'Stan' fired 2 corners over him and in to goal at the far post and a third corner in off the hack's back-side. Commenting afterwards he said 'I'm the same as Gary Player - the more I practice - the luckier I get'.
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Post by davethegrave on Oct 30, 2019 18:39:50 GMT
What makes you so sure that sacking the manager would prevent us from being relegated? Dos worked without pay. Who do you think we could afford to bring in who would turn things around quickly enough to save our season? Bearing in mind the other clubs at the bottom of the league will also be doing all they can to avoid the drop - and several of them with significantly more money than us. If the board had the will they would fined a way to move him on, because having a new manager in and just saying keep him on what ever happens, dose not wash with a lot of fans. What the fans want to see is the club doing something about it. At the moment it looks like the board are running the club how they want and also the club keep saying they want a than base but playing at conference south or be low will not achieve that because people will say no ambition, even Dos did not want to manage at the league below conference south level so come on board show leader ship so the fans can get be hind the club.. Were Reid's corners much better?
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Post by davethegrave on Oct 30, 2019 18:41:34 GMT
Matt Gray inherited a compromised squad that spent the end of last season underperforming. Had Dos remained there is a strong possibility that we would be in a similar league position to where we now find ourselves. That doesn’t absolve Matt of any responsibility of our current plight, but the seeds were already sown. If Dos stayed he would have kept the better players that he took to Havant. Don't forget that he wa away for the latter part of the season when the rot set in. Who was picking the team then?
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Post by Amber Aleman on Oct 30, 2019 19:54:31 GMT
Relegation back to the National League South wouldn't be a disaster, and arguably would return the club to its 'natural' level and comfort zone. But every club aspires to play at the highest level that it reasonably can, and I can't believe that anybody at SUFC actually wants us to go down.
There are a couple of points that follow from some of the comments above.
1. A manager who isn't delivering the expected results doesn't necessarily get sacked. Some managers take an honourable course and resign, as John Rains and Ian Hazel did from this club in 2006 and 2007 respectively. On other occasions a manager will leave 'by mutual consent', which (as I understand it) means that he accepts a pay-off of a lower value than the sum to which he's contractually entitled. I'm not saying that Matt should leave in either of those circumstances, just stating that they are alternatives. If he were to depart, the club would then be faced with the task of finding a suitable successor. We'd want someone who (a) has a recent track record of success at this level, (b) would want to come to Sutton at this time, and (c) is affordable. I don't know how many currently available managers meet those criteria, but the number could very well be zero.
2. A better way forward might be for Matt to admit that he's got certain things wrong and make some changes. There's limited scope to reshuffle the squad, but maybe shipping out a midfielder or two and bringing in a striker and/or a defender would achieve a better balance and improve our goals for and against record. As Del and Pinewalker have pointed out, the tactics (for example at corners) are rather inflexible, and a more varied approach to set pieces could bring rewards. Then there are substitutions. Matt tends to make like-for-like changes, so sticking with a formation that may not have been working. Last night he swapped Wright for Jarvis up front, Barden for Eastmond at RB, and Ajiboye for Randall on the wing. None of these changes noticeably improved the performance. When Dos was in the dugout and the team was chasing a goal he'd often gamble by taking off a defensive player and bringing on an attacking one. If you're already trailing in the game you might as well risk losing by a greater margin and increase your chances of grabbing an equaliser or winner. Those gambles didn't always pay off, but frequently they did. As the old saying goes, fortune favours the bold. Maybe Matt's safety-first instincts are acting as a brake on the team, and he should learn when to suppress them.
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Post by halftimet on Oct 30, 2019 20:39:15 GMT
Relegation back to the National League South wouldn't be a disaster, and arguably would return the club to its 'natural' level and comfort zone. But every club aspires to play at the highest level that it reasonably can, and I can't believe that anybody at SUFC actually wants us to go down. There are a couple of points that follow from some of the comments above. 1. A manager who isn't delivering the expected results doesn't necessarily get sacked. Some managers take an honourable course and resign, as John Rains and Ian Hazel did from this club in 2006 and 2007 respectively. On other occasions a manager will leave 'by mutual consent', which (as I understand it) means that he accepts a pay-off of a lower value than the sum to which he's contractually entitled. I'm not saying that Matt should leave in either of those circumstances, just stating that they are alternatives. If he were to depart, the club would then be faced with the task of finding a suitable successor. We'd want someone who (a) has a recent track record of success at this level, (b) would want to come to Sutton at this time, and (c) is affordable. I don't know how many currently available managers meet those criteria, but the number could very well be zero. 2. A better way forward might be for Matt to admit that he's got certain things wrong and make some changes. There's limited scope to reshuffle the squad, but maybe shipping out a midfielder or two and bringing in a striker and/or a defender would achieve a better balance and improve our goals for and against record. As Del and Pinewalker have pointed out, the tactics (for example at corners) are rather inflexible, and a more varied approach to set pieces could bring rewards. Then there are substitutions. Matt tends to make like-for-like changes, so sticking with a formation that may not have been working. Last night he swapped Wright for Jarvis up front, Barden for Eastmond at RB, and Ajiboye for Randall on the wing. None of these changes noticeably improved the performance. When Dos was in the dugout and the team was chasing a goal he'd often gamble by taking off a defensive player and bringing on an attacking one. If you're already trailing in the game you might as well risk losing by a greater margin and increase your chances of grabbing an equaliser or winner. Those gambles didn't always pay off, but frequently they did. As the old saying goes, fortune favours the bold. Maybe Matt's safety-first instincts are acting as a brake on the team, and he should learn when to suppress them. I did raise the point of inflexibility and the aspirations of the board in a previous post. Could anyone who attended the Meet the Manager night clarify if anybody did ask a salient question around change of tactics or the clubs position in staying in the National League?
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Post by os on Oct 30, 2019 23:27:32 GMT
There is a lot of lurching two and throw on this thread from, chuck Matt over the side and exile this awful board, too lets do nothing and accept our fate of lower league football as our natural level. I think both polarized views are wrong, there is IMO quite a lot of wiggle room in between, there are many areas that the club can improve. The club is known for being both traditional and forward thinking, I do think we may be a bit too on the traditional side at the moment, as there quite a number of modern avenues that have not been explored fully.
I have been quite vocal in my views for a while, the club needs its mojo back, and that costs nothing. My first though is if you don't believe then you will not achieve anything. Surely Dos left us with that ethos, he would not give up now and I don't see why so many seem to have thrown the towel in.
I stood on the terrace in a crowd of 350 being relegated to the Ryman in 2008, and I don't want that feeling back again, and neither do I truly believe does our board. I honestly believe that everyone from the chairman to our newest supporter, needs to look at what can be done to keep us and sustain us at this level.
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Post by VCLXI on Oct 31, 2019 1:21:34 GMT
In my opinion, this is Sutton's level. Christ, it was only two years ago that we debating promotion to the Football League.
How times have changed.
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Post by Del on Oct 31, 2019 9:22:53 GMT
In my opinion, this is Sutton's level. Christ, it was only two years ago that we debating promotion to the Football League. How times have changed. Exactly, so what is Bournemouth's natural level or Wimbledon's when they were in the Premier/ 1st division. That is the whole idea of the pyramid . Teams can reach the summit and if they fall off so be it. It is better to attempt to reach your destination than never to travel at all.
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Post by Andy K on Oct 31, 2019 9:33:35 GMT
In my opinion, this is Sutton's level. Christ, it was only two years ago that we debating promotion to the Football League. How times have changed. However you skin it, we can't claim to be one of the bigger sides in this division. Smaller ground, smaller fanbase, part time club setup, no league history. Whichever yardstick you use that's the case. In isolation one could say that we're overachieving by being in this league. But look down one division. How many of the clubs in that division could actually be classed as a bigger club than ours? Maidstone? Perhaps Dartford or Wealdstone? Again however you measure it, in the National South we are and will always be (unless something very odd happens) one of the biggest sides in that division. Maybe our future is going to be a yo-yo club between the two divisions, and that's something I can live with. It's still miles better than the season we had to face in 2007-8 where we ended up 10 points adrift at the bottom of a league that we were not one of the smaller clubs. To all the new supporters who we've picked up since then, trust me when I say this is nothing compared to that utter disaster of a season (which of course we changed the manager, pumped an emergency amount of money into the club and got worse).
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Post by Big Al on Oct 31, 2019 21:32:22 GMT
Still not sure I buy in to the argument that we can’t afford to sack the Manager. I actually am starting to believe we can’t afford NOT to sack the Manager. The way results are going and the team are performing we are headed for a very very bad season and I have seen very few comments on here from contributors who believe otherwise. The financial impacts of being relegated would outweigh any settlement of Matt’s contact though of course changing the Manager does not guarantee survival. Such action would, however, give us a chance of survival where under the current leadership that is starting to look most unlikely. If that is the case we should accept that the Manager will have to go and act decisively and quickly. The alternative is what? We hang on to a Manager into relegation and beyond to next year who has no track record and shows no sign of being able to turn things round until his contract expires? That seems unlikely so why not change what is clearly not working and do so now. What makes you so sure that sacking the manager would prevent us from being relegated? Dos worked without pay. Who do you think we could afford to bring in who would turn things around quickly enough to save our season? Bearing in mind the other clubs at the bottom of the league will also be doing all they can to avoid the drop - and several of them with significantly more money than us. I am definitely not sure that changing the Manager would prevent us from being relegated but on the evidence before us I am afraid I believe that if we don’t change then we will almost certainly lose our place in this division. I believe we should have confidence in both the profile of our club being able to attract the right Manager and in Bruce and our Board being able to convince that man to come on the right terms. If that really is not the case then I would be looking to give JC a go at a player/ manager role. Whatever else I would hope we do something rather than simply watch on as the Club fails with the main argument for that approach seeming to be that we can’t afford to change the Manager. Again the only logical outcome of this approach is that we would simply count down Matt’s contract in the desperate hope that he can turn it round. Very few on here appear to believe that is now likely.
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Post by davethegrave on Oct 31, 2019 21:51:56 GMT
What makes you so sure that sacking the manager would prevent us from being relegated? Dos worked without pay. Who do you think we could afford to bring in who would turn things around quickly enough to save our season? Bearing in mind the other clubs at the bottom of the league will also be doing all they can to avoid the drop - and several of them with significantly more money than us. I am definitely not sure that changing the Manager would prevent us from being relegated but on the evidence before us I am afraid I believe that if we don’t change then we will almost certainly lose our place in this division. I believe we should have confidence in both the profile of our club being able to attract the right Manager and in Bruce and our Board being able to convince that man to come on the right terms. If that really is not the case then I would be looking to give JC a go at a player/ manager role. . Or Dundo?
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Post by VCLXI on Oct 31, 2019 21:52:04 GMT
In my opinion, this is Sutton's level. Christ, it was only two years ago that we debating promotion to the Football League. How times have changed. However you skin it, we can't claim to be one of the bigger sides in this division. Smaller ground, smaller fanbase, part time club setup, no league history. Whichever yardstick you use that's the case. In isolation one could say that we're overachieving by being in this league. But look down one division. How many of the clubs in that division could actually be classed as a bigger club than ours? Maidstone? Perhaps Dartford or Wealdstone? Again however you measure it, in the National South we are and will always be (unless something very odd happens) one of the biggest sides in that division. Maybe our future is going to be a yo-yo club between the two divisions, and that's something I can live with. It's still miles better than the season we had to face in 2007-8 where we ended up 10 points adrift at the bottom of a league that we were not one of the smaller clubs. To all the new supporters who we've picked up since then, trust me when I say this is nothing compared to that utter disaster of a season (which of course we changed the manager, pumped an emergency amount of money into the club and got worse). Yes, fair point and I agree with what you say. Sutton aren't one of the 'Big Boys' of the league and I wasn't saying that they are, we'll leave that title to Notts. County. But Sutton are probably one of the most recognised non-league clubs around, I loathe to use the word famous, but after being in this league for what is now a fourth successive season surely we can say that this is Sutton's level? Edited: Damn fingers.
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