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Post by sallycat on Jan 16, 2015 13:02:48 GMT
The seeds were sown during the close season with so many changes to a team that finished second, when surely only a few tweaks here and there were called for. As the saying goes "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". The slow start was almost inevitable and sadly things only got worse this time. You've worded that as if Dos chose to make all those changes. A lot of them were out of his control. He didn't tell Paul Telfer to go to America did he...
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Post by amberchoc on Jan 16, 2015 13:45:54 GMT
Just one minor point regarding Medibot's post: "Years of success" is a bit of an exaggeration Really? How many unsuccessful years have we had under PD? I'll leave that as a rhetorical question rather than state the blindingly obvious answer. I suppose it depends on your interpretation of the term 'success'. Our only truly successful season was 2010/11, winning the Isthmian League. Finishing second last season was clearly a fine achievement, but can it be deemed successful? After all, just three or four months later, we simply started again from scratch with zero points along with all those from 3rd to 20th. The F.A.Cup runs were useful and generated some revenue to help fund the ground improvements, so success in a way there. Okay, I'll change "Years of doing well" to "Years of doing bloody well".
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Post by Amber Aleman on Jan 16, 2015 13:49:44 GMT
There's a rumour just surfaced on the Conference South forum that Bromley have signed Anthony Cook following his release by Ebbsfleet and that Damian Scannell is returning to us on loan.
Whether or not that's accurate, I'd be expecting some imminent squad changes.
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Post by Andy K on Jan 16, 2015 13:53:18 GMT
Pound for pound, our record under Dos (Ryman 5th, 2nd, 1st then CS 5th, 6th, 2nd) is as successful, possibly more so that Barrie Williams reign, and more than John Rains, both of which brought us other titles.
6 pretty successful seasons, now it seems like we're having a bad one. There's one difference between them. Steve McKimm, or put more broadly, a decent coach. We're still paying the price for Beadle (a disaster), Lawrence (really a fitness coach) and Lockwood (never had the chance to make an impression). Players like Wellard have been much better since the change in coaching, but if you want to look at bonafide evidence at to how bad that was, just look at Charlie Clough's early season form. He got good after those 3 left, but whilst they were here, it was pretty clear for all to see that there would have been no way he'd have got his move to FGR based on his match performances.
I've more confidence in Baird, and we're hearing that this team has the "players to win the league". But without good coaches it won't appear. It will take time to undo some of this, but my point being that players come and players go, but replacing the likes of Telfer and Mckimm was always going to be a hard ask.
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Post by amberchoc on Jan 16, 2015 13:55:18 GMT
The seeds were sown during the close season with so many changes to a team that finished second, when surely only a few tweaks here and there were called for. As the saying goes "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". The slow start was almost inevitable and sadly things only got worse this time. You've worded that as if Dos chose to make all those changes. A lot of them were out of his control. He didn't tell Paul Telfer to go to America did he... Indeed, there were some that were out of his control.....which brings up another topic. Perhaps it's time to question the wisdom of daytime training. I appreciate that it must make life a lot easier for Dos, who has a long way to travel, but too often we find that players, who are initially able to commit to it, then have difficulty due to changing work circumstances or whatever. Daytime training must also severely limit the pool of potential signings that Dos can choose from.
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Post by sallycat on Jan 16, 2015 14:38:30 GMT
I've been wondering about that myself. Maybe it isn't working any more. Or maybe it's unrelated. Finishing second last season was clearly a fine achievement, but can it be deemed successful? Given that the club's (and Dos's) goal that season was to reach the playoffs, I'd say yes, it was successful as we reached that goal. After all, just three or four months later, we simply started again from scratch with zero points along with all those from 3rd to 20th. Well, I don't need to tell you that's how football works! I'd hate to consider everyone who doesn't win the league or the playoffs a failure. I know where you're coming from: we didn't succeed in getting promoted. But whose goal was that, and was it realistic? I absolutely agree that this season hasn't been succcessful as we are not going to achieve any of our aims. But that's (hopefully) just one season. I suppose this is all about semantics, really.
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tonyd
1st team Player
Posts: 1,494
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Post by tonyd on Jan 16, 2015 14:50:59 GMT
One championship and four play-off appearances in six years would be called successful under most normal judgments! Since he has been here, Dos has rung the changes every season, just as Eastleigh fans told us he would. And it has been successful every year except this one.
And now we have so-called long-time supporters, who have apparently been in a coma for the last 6 years, telling us that Dos doesn't care because he takes a holiday during the Micky Mouse cup; we have people telling us he makes "insulting" decisions; and people criticising the strategy of changing the squad despite the success we have had.
What a bunch of primadonnas we have become!
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Post by Del on Jan 16, 2015 15:01:07 GMT
I think feelings were running high after the Merstham game and with time for reflection some probably wished they hadn't vented their disappointment in such a manner.Hey ho this is football & sh t happens!
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Post by amberchoc on Jan 16, 2015 15:14:04 GMT
I think feelings were running high after the Merstham game and with time for reflection some probably wished they hadn't vented their disappointment in such a manner.Hey ho this football & sh t happens! I suspect feelings were running high due to the sudden realisation by some that all we have to "look forward" to now is a battle against relegation. But good times and bad times in football tend to be cyclical. Hopefully, this season is just a blip rather than the start of a trough.
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jr
1st team skipper
Posts: 2,166
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Post by jr on Jan 16, 2015 17:38:59 GMT
I'm really not sure what people are expecting. There are a lot of clubs in this league that are spending some big money and therefore it's getting harder and harder to match them. We can of course compete and I expect that to happen for the rest of the season and next. If we're still in the CS next season and not in the Conference National then it will be just as hard, if not harder, should Maidstone come up and Margate/Dulwich.
Yes we have good players, but so do plenty of other clubs. It's a very tough league to get out of. It doesn't help when some of our rivals have good cup runs as they can afford to strengthen their team so it's going to be very difficult for us. Perhaps some of our supporters could throw in £500k a season! That would help and I think they may have more reason to complain!!
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Post by Suttontilidie on Jan 16, 2015 17:42:49 GMT
We don't need the kind of money that some clubs are throwing around now at this level, we've proved that as far as I'm concerned, not saying that we do what we do on pennies rather than pounds but our budget, which we know is part of a very respected and sustainable business model, does the job if used the way we've seen Dos use it during his time as manager.
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Post by garethl on Jan 16, 2015 19:22:01 GMT
6 pretty successful seasons, now it seems like we're having a bad one. There's one difference between them. Steve McKimm, or put more broadly, a decent coach. We're still paying the price for Beadle (a disaster), Lawrence (really a fitness coach) and Lockwood (never had the chance to make an impression). Players like Wellard have been much better since the change in coaching, but if you want to look at bonafide evidence at to how bad that was, just look at Charlie Clough's early season form. He got good after those 3 left, but whilst they were here, it was pretty clear for all to see that there would have been no way he'd have got his move to FGR based on his match performances. I've more confidence in Baird, and we're hearing that this team has the "players to win the league". But without good coaches it won't appear. It will take time to undo some of this, but my point being that players come and players go, but replacing the likes of Telfer and Mckimm was always going to be a hard ask. I'm not sure you can put a player's form down to a coach so decisively. Players after all lose confidence and go through bad patches even when they have the same manager/coach or indeed no coach/manager. I really rate Clough and I think it would do him a disservice to put a little wobble down to a change of coach. All that said I'm sure McKimm and Telfer did have a very positive impact. As to Baird and his appointment best I keep my opinion on that to myself.
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Post by Andy K on Jan 16, 2015 19:30:59 GMT
Fair point Gareth - to me certainly Cloughy started playing much better around the time Baird came on board. Prior to that he really was totally off form. Certainly not the only reason, but I feel a major factor. The point I'm making is that people can easily point the finger at players, but sometimes do forget the impact coaches have on their performance. If they had little or no impact then there would be no need for them! Mind you after your closing statement I think you've made it quite clear what you think of Baird so far!
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Post by garethl on Jan 16, 2015 19:40:18 GMT
It was more prior to Sutton. It's difficult to judge him here coming in under difficult circumstances in a season where everything has gone wrong. It's also very hard to judge generally. He may just have a bad hand player wise. TBH results and performance I can only really judge the manager. He makes/is responsible for the coaching personnel decisions and playing staff decisions with their input. I'm happy with who we have in charge and that it will turn our way again. Patience required, a dying quality!
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markf
Top Performer
Posts: 3,191
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Post by markf on Jan 16, 2015 20:00:37 GMT
With regards to Medibots' assertion that this management team is not up to it, does he mean Dos in that collective? If you mean do I think some of the decisions he's made this season have been stupid, expensive, insulting to many other people in the club outside of the first team squad, naive and a sign of somebody who has hit a rough patch and started flailing and panicking, then yes, I do think that. If you think that means I don't think Paul Doswell is still the right man to manage this club, then no, I don't think that. This wreck of a season is something that you can push through providing you can admit your mistakes and deal with them. Years of success don't disappear with one year of failure as long as you develop from it. Paul Doswell will be a far better manager from a season of disappointment and uncontrollable events (Reindorf, injuries, rescinded red cards, some of the issues mentioned at the meet the manager, etc). I certainly believe that you can criticise somebody and their decisions without the only solution being calling for their head and sacking them. The world is not black and white, there are many shades of grey. First time I have had an opportunity to respond. Perhaps not posting when your emotions are high straight after the game (after you have just berated the players) may offer some clarification to your initial post. Insult? Where is the insult? Why are you insulted - is anybody else insulted? Who have you been listening to? I think I know. The world is surely not black and white, but your first post was an insult to the management and certainly did not separate any of the individuals involved.
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