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Post by os on Apr 19, 2017 22:50:30 GMT
Just wondered why anyone would want to do that job? i saw a programme on sky sports, about what these people have to put up with, at all levels particularly at lower grass roots levels.
I feel a bit guilty now for the comments i often throw their way, I mean surely you have to have absolutely no feelings at all to do it. What is the motivation? it looks like simply surviving the day to me..
I know MarkF has done it for years but i wonder if anyone else has officiated, and is there anyone who would like to take it up and why??
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Post by sallycat on Apr 20, 2017 9:40:40 GMT
I've often felt the same way and wondered myself. Getting a bit of stick is one thing but I've heard some appalling abuse levelled at match officials over the years. It must be a horrible job at times; most would probably say they have learned to develop a thick skin and not care what people think but still nobody should have to put up with that sort of thing whilst trying to do a job.
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Post by SG on Apr 20, 2017 9:55:56 GMT
I've done it - was a tidy little earner back in the day as a 14/15-year-old refereeing U10-U13 games in the afternoon after playing in the morning. Sure as hell wouldn't referee at that level these days, though, for a grown adult the money's not worth the hassle you get from parents.
Football League referees get about £400 a game, so can safely assume the ones we get at National League level are on a bit less than that. I'm not sure that's worth the hassle either. It's not until you get to the top flight when you get a guaranteed £70k salary plus a £1000-ish match fee when you could reasonably argue that you're getting fair payment for the variety of negative aspects to the role.
Arguably, that's why there is a sense that most referees are officiating at a level above their current ability - unless you're able to get into the elite group, it's not enough of an earner to make a proper career out of it. A Football League referee who does 50 games in a season will only get £20,000. Not bad as a second income, but the full-time job would have to be pretty understanding for all the time off required for midweek games, long trips on Fridays for a Saturday game, etc. It must put a pretty heavy strain on your life, plus all the negative attention you get - no referee ever gets positive press.
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markf
Top Performer
Posts: 3,190
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Post by markf on Apr 20, 2017 10:09:17 GMT
Sunday morning and the like is far more difficult than senior football. There is only one of you not 3 or 4 so you have to stand up for yourself and not be intimidated. That sometimes means giving it back. A thick skin is a pre-requisite. In my experience, the ref's that get real stick on Sundays are the ones who shouldn't be anywhere near a football pitch because they haven't a clue, don't do it properly or in the worst cases are just picking up a match fee. Remember that players pay to play on Sundays (and the like) and don't want their mornings ruined by overly incompetent officials.
Fortunately, I was generally ok so didn't get that much abuse although was prone to some disastrous performances once in a while - generally one a season when staying in bed would have been the best option for all!!
That said, some of the abuse is because the players are just thick - half of them don't know the laws of the game and their comments used to make me laugh rather than annoy because it portrayed them as idiots.
I have little sympathy for officials at U's level as between them they should be able to get it right and they don't (not always). They all seem to be there for each other rather than get the decision right (so they look good). Cosmetics over correctness.
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Post by manonthemoon on Apr 20, 2017 10:16:37 GMT
Hello one and all I have been a ref for 14 yrs now and took it up when I was told that playing football was over due to an injury to my neck (I played in goal). I looked at coaching but that did not appeal to me and a friend was starting the ref course and I went along and enjoyed learning about football. As a player you are taught how to play football and not always the rules of football. On becoming a ref I have found that my knowledge and understanding of the game has grown. I still have opinions on a game but a better understanding of why the game has gone that way. Football is always be an opinion sport the trouble is you can not please everyone. I always try and get across to the players my style of game management in a clear instructions. As a ref you have to understand that all footballers want to win. Some will do that at all costs, others use their skill and others just enjoy playing the game. One thing you must get right in managing a game is to be clear with signals and explanations of what you are asking or telling the players to do during the match. I could go on and on about laws and the game itself and how it has changed even since I started to ref but the main thing I would suggest anyone who is interested just try it you could find that you enjoy it.
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Post by pinewalker on Apr 20, 2017 12:45:08 GMT
Grass roots refs get £35 per game in Hants and Surrey border area. I still ref games occasionally now, I am getting old but can still keep up with the Vets game. I get very little abuse from the players, but what comes over from the odd moron on the touchline is something else. Some grass roots refs actually make a living from it, they can do one youth and 3 senior games at the weekend and practically get a few hours every weekday night at 5 a side or futsal venues.
The two rules least understood seem to me to be what a foul throw is and isn't, and 'the second last defender' part of the offside rule particularly when the keeper has come out and missed the ball, then a forward pass is made behind him with one outfield player on the goal line.
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Post by georgieboy on Apr 20, 2017 13:12:55 GMT
Some of the comments from the collingwood road stand to the linesman are embarrassing and often downright pathetic. Same suspects every week, men old enough to know better
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Post by Stewart on Apr 20, 2017 13:16:49 GMT
A very good thread. So good it got me searching for a referee's forum.
I found one and this post:
Game this evening and a player told me to 'f**ck off' as I gave a throw in against his team. The player had been quite for all the game and hadn't done anything to pop up on my radar. In this situation should I of used the stepped approach to deal with it or was I right to show in a yellow?
How would you deal with it?
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Post by pinewalker on Apr 20, 2017 13:26:57 GMT
A very good thread. So good it got me searching for a referee's forum. I found one and this post: Game this evening and a player told me to 'f**ck off' as I gave a throw in against his team. The player had been quite for all the game and hadn't done anything to pop up on my radar. In this situation should I of used the stepped approach to deal with it or was I right to show in a yellow?How would you deal with it? Give the ref a dictionary.
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Post by amberchoc on Apr 20, 2017 13:30:49 GMT
A very good thread. So good it got me searching for a referee's forum. I found one and this post: Game this evening and a player told me to 'f**ck off' as I gave a throw in against his team. The player had been quite for all the game and hadn't done anything to pop up on my radar. In this situation should I of used the stepped approach to deal with it or was I right to show in a yellow?How would you deal with it? It'd be funny if, in an instance like that, a referee turned round and said “F**k off to you too”. Give ‘em a dose of their own medicine!
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Post by sallycat on Apr 20, 2017 14:32:58 GMT
A very good thread. So good it got me searching for a referee's forum. I found one and this post: Game this evening and a player told me to 'f**ck off' as I gave a throw in against his team. The player had been quite for all the game and hadn't done anything to pop up on my radar. In this situation should I of used the stepped approach to deal with it or was I right to show in a yellow?How would you deal with it? Give the ref a dictionary. He probably didn't need to give his decision in writing.
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Post by Stewart on Apr 20, 2017 15:40:15 GMT
I found this interesting:
Designed for use at a Cup Final but can be adapted to a normal game.
1. Pre-match – third team, work together, warm-up a. Third team – you’ve reached the final just like the players, based on your ability and have earned your appointments so well done b. Work together – both teams will want to win and the only friends out on the field are your colleagues so look after each other c. Warm-up – it’s an easy trick to impress those who watch all their football on the tv. To the experienced eye, it shows you are taking this game as seriously as the players d. Appoint a senior assistant who will replace you if you can’t continue for any reason e. Your senior writes down everything you write down while your junior keeps an eye on all the players while you and the senior assistant are writing f. The junior assistant should record times of all the goals, while you and your senior assistant watch the players
2. Admin - team-sheet, jewellery and boot check a. Team sheets – ask for them about 30 minutes before kick off but if they aren’t provided then you want the name of all the players, especially if it is roll on-roll off subs. Write them all in your notebook so that it makes your cautioning easier b. Jewellery – no player wears a single item. This is a time to establish your authority c. Boot check – a time to mix with the players, maybe make a joke or two to relax them and you
3. Entrance – together, check nets, witness toss, into position a. Enter the field by leading the teams out like they do for Champions League games. Tell the managers 30 minutes before kick off that is how they will enter the field. Do the Respect handshake with the home team shaking your hands, your assistants and the away team. The away team then shake your hands and your assistants b. Check nets – assistants break and check that nets are pegged down. They are responsible for letting you know if there is a problem but they should also resolve any issues with their net c. Witness toss – winner of toss chooses direction to play, loser kicks off d. Position – shake hands with your assistants and they move to their patrol path. They should run right wings, that means covering from the halfway line to the corner flag, alongside the left backs
4. Offside – see, acknowledge, miss a. If you think there’s been an offside offence, just have a glance to your assistant b. This is really important just after every goal, check your assistant isn’t signalling that an infringement has occurred c. Explain offside using PIG, player in an offside position when the ball is last touched/played by a team mate but ask them to “wait and see” if two players are going for the ball at the same time, one offside one not and the one offside i. Plays the ball ii. Interferes with an opponent by distracting them or preventing them from playing the ball iii. Gains an advantage by getting the ball from a rebound off the goalkeeper or goal frame d. You will see the assistant’s signal, stop play, they indicate far, middle or near, ball down, indirect free kick signal (arm straight up and stays up until someone else plays the ball after the free kick or it goes out of play), restart the game with a blast on your whistle e. You will miss them, they need to maintain their signal until you see them, then it’s as per d above f. You will see them but the ball is going to the goalkeeper with no one else near, then just play advantage to the goalkeeper. If an attacker is near, then stop play as per d above
5. Throw-ins – thirds, leading, eye contact a. Divide the touchline into thirds b. In their third, they signal and unless they are really obviously wrong, you go with them c. In your third, they go with your direction every time d. In the middle third, you indicate which direction and use eye contact to lead them or point the direction at waist level. Take your time and both go the same way
6. Corners – ball in arc, behind flag both sides unless called a. Assistant to check the ball is in the arc and stand behind the corner flag when the kick is on their side b. Assistant to stand behind the corner flag when the kick is on the opposite side from them c. They are to watch for the ball crossing the goal line for a goal, goal kick or corner kick
7. Goal kicks – check 1st kick in each half a. Check the 1st kick in each half from in line with the goal area b. Check other kicks from in line with the penalty area
8. Fouls & Misconduct – tempo management, credibility, advantage, cards a. Tempo management – assistants need to gauge your tolerance level for fouls and help you out b. Credibility – they really should only give signals for free kicks which occur within 15m or so from their position c. Advantage – if they indicate a free kick should be given, but you play advantage, they need to keep moving d. Cards – if they want you to issue a card, they need to tell you who did what and what they think should happen e. At free kicks, if it’s near their position ask them to watch the ball to make sure it isn’t moved while you walk out the 9.15m
9. Penalties – yes, no or help; goal line judge, infringements a. Yes – you give the penalty and they shouldn’t attempt to over rule you b. No – you cut the grass and they shouldn’t come in with a signal unless someone has punched someone else behind your back c. Help – you know something happened. If they think it’s a penalty, they should give an agitated flag signal and move swiftly towards the corner flag d. Goal line judge – they move to a place on the goal line halfway between where the goal line touches the lines marking the outer edge of the goal areas and penalty areas e. They need to see if the ball crosses the goal line for a goal and/or the goal keeper moves more than 1m off his line before the ball is kicked. If he does, they should stand still and let you know you need a re-take, if it was saved
10. Mass confrontations – observe, runners, come together a. If one happens, you and they should observe who is doing what – form a triangle around the incident b. The one nearest the technical areas should ensure no one runs on from there c. When it all calms down you come together d. You work out your dismissals first and then your cautions e. Send away team players off first and home team players off second f. Allow a delay between sending them so they don’t start fighting again g. If you feel you will not be able to regain control, especially if spectators have entered the field, then consider abandoning the game
11. Benches – manage, if not possible, bring me over a. Technical areas – put your most senior person next to them b. They should attempt to manage any misconduct by the managers/coaches/subs c. If they can’t, then they should call you over d. You issue one warning and any further infringements, bin them!
12. Substitutions – one off, one on; named, jewellery and boot check a. Control them by only allowing the sub to enter the field when the player he is replacing has left the field b. Your assistant needs to check they were named before kick off c. Re-do the jewellery and boot check for the sub joining the game, even if they have been on before
13. Time down a. Near the end of each half, tell your senior assistant how much added time you will be playing so he can tell the managers b. This is the minimum you will play
14. Exit – half time, come together, no discussion a. Half time – assistants should run to your position so they can act as witness if anyone says anything to you b. Don’t enter into any discussion on the field, just offer to talk to the person 15 minutes after the game has finished
15. Second half – substitutions, check nets a. Second half – check there’s no substitutions being made b. Assistants to check nets again as per 3d above
16. Same sides unless there’s a problem a. Assistants to stay on same side so they will have a new defence to look after b. Only change this if one assistant is getting a lot of grief from people around him
17. Exit – full time, come together, no discussion a. Full time – assistants should run to your position so they can act as witness if anyone says anything to you b. Don’t enter into any discussion on the field, just offer to talk to the person 15 minutes after the game has finished
18. Feedback – private and open
a. After the game ask your assistants if there were any mistakes and listen carefully so you understand why the other official feels differently about one of your decisions b. Don’t be afraid to ask questions or challenge their statement so you understand better c. This discussion takes place in private
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Post by aliroberts1987 on Apr 21, 2017 6:34:38 GMT
There are a couple of episodes of a podcast called 'The Magic Sponge' hosted by Jimmy Bullard and comedian Rob Beckett which had ex premiership refs Mark Halsey and Jeff Winter on as guests telling stories or their reffing days. Very funny stuff, Winter said he couldn't ref these days as top flight refs are mic'd up and it's all recorded. He said when players abused him or started he would tell them to p*ss off and swear back.
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Post by davethegrave on Dec 17, 2018 16:05:47 GMT
Following on from Mark's comments about Saturday's referee, I wasn't there so I can't comment. However I am often amazed at the level of officials in this league.
They seem to miss the obvious so often and what really are Referee's Assistants supposed to do except take instructions from the man in the middle and follow his lead. Why can't they HELP? Surely they're there for what the referee misses.
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billy
1st team skipper
Posts: 2,626
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Post by billy on Dec 17, 2018 16:22:25 GMT
What chance have the match officials got nowadays ? Virtually every player in every game is trying to con them all day long.
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