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Post by Andy K on Mar 27, 2020 13:15:40 GMT
It's a difficult call to make whichever way you skin it, but I don't think that what the steps below have done sets the precedent for what the National League and higher do. The National League is the lowest league that has full time teams and fully professional teams and the League (as well as the ones above) need to rightly consider the financial implications of moving between these division which could be significant.
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tonyd
1st team Player
Posts: 1,494
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Post by tonyd on Mar 27, 2020 17:38:52 GMT
I know it's tough on teams with points totals that look like a promotion would have been a near certainly for them. But how do you promote them if the team in the bottom position of the league above are not mathematically 'down'? Or, in our division, do you relegate Ebbsfleet, who have recently been making a real fight of staying up? There's no reason to assume, had the season been continued, that they couldn't have got out of the relegation zone. With the exception of Barnet and Torquay all teams have played at least 37 matches, I.e. very nearly the equivalent of a full Premier League season. It may be tough on Ebbsfleet who might have escaped relegation, but not as tough as it is on teams who would probably have won promotion and see it taken away. (See my comment on the 2 years today thread). I think the way the step 3-6 clubs have been treated is a disgrace and the only fair (or as fair as you can get) is to recast the tables on a ppg basis with the play off promotion place going to the highest place team (which would please those who don’t agree with play offs!). I note that the secy of the Isthmian says that there is still a quarter of the fixtures to play; which means that 75% of fixtures HAVE been played, surely enough. Plus, I don’t like the fact that our 6-2 stuffing of Woking would be expunged from the records. 😡
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Post by Del on Mar 27, 2020 18:41:50 GMT
How about the National league restarts in May or June and the 20/21 season starts in September /October.Next season could then be extended.
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Post by os on Mar 27, 2020 19:04:50 GMT
I have pondered this question, and I have come to a simple conclusion.
We use the term that the table at the end of the season does not lie, your bad luck balancing with your good fortune. Teams have dips in form and have purple patches, but come the final game after everyone has played each other twice you get your true finishing positions.You don't get that after 36 or 37 matches, the variables left at incalculable, therefore you have to void the season.
My only exception is Liverpool should be awarded the premiership title because its basically a statistical fact that they would have won it. Also it has no bearing on relegation or promotion, so no knock on effect.
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tonyd
1st team Player
Posts: 1,494
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Post by tonyd on Mar 27, 2020 19:49:00 GMT
I have pondered this question, and I have come to a simple conclusion. We use the term that the table at the end of the season does not lie, your bad luck balancing with your good fortune. Teams have dips in form and have purple patches, but come the final game after everyone has played each other twice you get your true finishing positions.You don't get that after 36 or 37 matches, the variables left at incalculable, therefore you have to void the season. My only exception is Liverpool should be awarded the premiership title because its basically a statistical fact that they would have won it. Also it has no bearing on relegation or promotion, so no knock on effect. As since as you make an exception you destroy your argument. What about Jersey Bulls, for example?
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Post by os on Mar 27, 2020 21:05:17 GMT
I have pondered this question, and I have come to a simple conclusion. We use the term that the table at the end of the season does not lie, your bad luck balancing with your good fortune. Teams have dips in form and have purple patches, but come the final game after everyone has played each other twice you get your true finishing positions.You don't get that after 36 or 37 matches, the variables left at incalculable, therefore you have to void the season. My only exception is Liverpool should be awarded the premiership title because its basically a statistical fact that they would have won it. Also it has no bearing on relegation or promotion, so no knock on effect. As since as you make an exception you destroy your argument. What about Jersey Bulls, for example? I would accept if others felt strongly that Liverpool too had not completed their season, but the main premise stays 'its not over until its over' not perfect I know but best and fairest solution IMO.
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kpinwp
1st team Player
Posts: 1,190
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Post by kpinwp on Mar 27, 2020 22:06:51 GMT
As since as you make an exception you destroy your argument. What about Jersey Bulls, for example? I would accept if others felt strongly that Liverpool too had not completed their season, but the main premise stays 'its not over until its over' not perfect I know but best and fairest solution IMO. The one thing that must be created is a level playing field (terrible synonym in the circumstances). If Liverpool are awarded the title then Leeds must be awarded the title for the Championship, and so on down, with all the other promotions and relegations that follow from that. We can't create a special exception for one team, based on sentiment. That's the road to multiple and quite justified litigations from other clubs And I say 'awarded' because they would not have won it. You can't win it until the season is over and you are top. And I don't see how we can make best guess final positions materialise from an incomplete season. The logic of that escapes me. The season consists of the number of matches agreed to be played by each league at the start of that season. Ad hoc abbreviation is not written into that. Imo, no ones playing anything in May. Looking at the situation with Wimbledon, I'd say not in June, either.
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Post by Amber Aleman on Mar 28, 2020 8:28:16 GMT
The football authorities need to make the best of a bad situation. It's looking increasingly unlikely that organised sport will resume before August (and it could be later, perhaps months later). That's a particular issue for non-League clubs with many player contracts expiring around the end of April. Because the different levels of the game are linked like a chain by promotions and relegations, the various leagues need to act in unison. That's why the National League has asked the FA to take a lead.
About 80% of the season's matches have been played. It goes against the grain to write all that off. I think the best compromise solution would be to determine final positions on a points-per-game basis, with titles and any other automatic promotion spots decided accordingly. Play-offs should be abandoned, so any club finishing in a play-off position stays put for the next season (whenever that can start). A knock-on effect would be that some clubs get a reprieve from relegation.
How would that affect the National League? Assuming that Bury FC are not re-activated, and that the EFL wants to return to 72 clubs, there would be no relegation to the NL and Barrow would be promoted as champions. No other club goes up. The champions of NL North and South (King's Lynn and Wealdstone on PPG) are both promoted. No other club comes up. That would mean only the NL's bottom club (Chorley) gets relegated. The total churn would be two in two out.
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kpinwp
1st team Player
Posts: 1,190
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Post by kpinwp on Mar 28, 2020 12:07:18 GMT
The football authorities need to make the best of a bad situation. It's looking increasingly unlikely that organised sport will resume before August (and it could be later, perhaps months later). That's a particular issue for non-League clubs with many player contracts expiring around the end of April. Because the different levels of the game are linked like a chain by promotions and relegations, the various leagues need to act in unison. That's why the National League has asked the FA to take a lead. About 80% of the season's matches have been played. It goes against the grain to write all that off. I think the best compromise solution would be to determine final positions on a points-per-game basis, with titles and any other automatic promotion spots decided accordingly. Play-offs should be abandoned, so any club finishing in a play-off position stays put for the next season (whenever that can start). A knock-on effect would be that some clubs get a reprieve from relegation. How would that affect the National League? Assuming that Bury FC are not re-activated, and that the EFL wants to return to 72 clubs, there would be no relegation to the NL and Barrow would be promoted as champions. No other club goes up. The champions of NL North and South (King's Lynn and Wealdstone on PPG) are both promoted. No other club comes up. That would mean only the NL's bottom club (Chorley) gets relegated. The total churn would be two in two out. There is a coherence to that model. So, without working through the points per game part, that would see Leeds and West Brom go up, with Norwich and Villa going down? But you'd have to expect a lawsuit from Villa, then. Only 2 points adrift from safety with a game in hand over the three clubs directly above them.
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Post by Amber Aleman on Mar 28, 2020 12:30:51 GMT
Yup. The PL could sweeten the pill with extra parachute money. The string would be "sue us and lose and you don't get the extra".
Incidentally, I see that Yeovil Town are arguing for extra parachute money from the EFL if they're denied a shot at promotion this year. 🙄
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kpinwp
1st team Player
Posts: 1,190
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Post by kpinwp on Mar 28, 2020 12:49:25 GMT
Hm, I think Yeovil may be over playing their hand, there.
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Post by davethegrave on Apr 5, 2020 15:56:54 GMT
I have pondered this question, and I have come to a simple conclusion. We use the term that the table at the end of the season does not lie, your bad luck balancing with your good fortune. Teams have dips in form and have purple patches, but come the final game after everyone has played each other twice you get your true finishing positions.You don't get that after 36 or 37 matches, the variables left at incalculable, therefore you have to void the season. My only exception is Liverpool should be awarded the premiership title because its basically a statistical fact that they would have won it. Also it has no bearing on relegation or promotion, so no knock on effect. Are you a Liverpool supporter by any chance?
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Post by davethegrave on Apr 5, 2020 15:59:24 GMT
I think that the best thing to do is to resume this season where it left off whenever it can. Then maybe next season - ie 2020/1 could be cancelled and restarted whenever convenient.
So much for these clubs complaining that they wanted a mid-season break.
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Post by localboy86 on Apr 16, 2020 21:18:49 GMT
An update for the National League.
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