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Post by Andy K on Apr 11, 2023 15:08:46 GMT
In 2020 Stevenage finished bottom of EFL2 and were relegated to the National League. However, they won a reprieve as Bury went bust and Macclesfield were deducted 4 points for financial irregularities. If Sutton can follow the 'model' of any club (to the extent that it is possible), I'd like to see us follow the 'Brentford' model. While they are clearly one of the smaller clubs in the Premiership, they operate a model that is capable of making them both financially sustainable and competitive football-wise for many years to come. Like Brentford, we have a very good manager, we have to recruit well and we are a club primarily run by accountants. Swindon won the league that season, and Northampton won the play offs. They came straight back down the following season. As are FGR this season. Whilst Brentford are a bit of a model club at the moment, aside from the numerous financial crises they've had in their history, they're owned by a multi-million pound supporter who bought and built a new ground for them, and had to abandon their academy. It's not specifically a model we can follow. We have to do what we can with what we've got and make it as attractive as possible for new investors and sponsors.
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Post by paz on Apr 11, 2023 16:32:17 GMT
Well said. In all honesty, we're nowhere near ready for L1 football. Whilst I know that the last 10 or so years have been pretty much sustained success (and that includes this season), there's nothing about this season which can be seen as a failure, aside from a woeful performance in the FA Cup. Staying in this division for the next 20 years is, to me and most longer term supporters I expect, 20 years of sustained success. It's not a lack of ambition, but there would be a real danger of us being promoted too early. Demands on the club and the infrastructure could be damaging to a club whose natural level in those measurement is probably lower half National League. Pushing that natural level up (as sides like Cheltenham, Stevenage and Burton have) doesn't happen in 2 seasons. Let's see where we are at the end of the 25/26 season. Hopefully if all goes according to plan we'll have a bigger ground, and a larger core fanbase and better facilities to bring more income in. Otherwise we'd be trying to build a new house on very shakey foundations. I, like any fan, are happier when we win than when we don't. Yesterday we lost to a better side. Who have an average crowd of over 17,000. The fact we were playing them as equals is something to be celebrate. Here here..
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Post by toothman on Apr 11, 2023 17:20:23 GMT
I agree that progressing too quickly and extending beyond one's means is ultimately fatal. Whom would we rather support- Sutton or Scunthorpe or Yeovil. Who'd have bet on FGR coming straight back down. I'd rather be us than any of those.
If you take Suttons recent 12 year history as a template - we have spent five years at each step before moving upward. So following that to its logical conclusion we will win League Two in season 2025/26 (and Cheltenham will be relegated form League One - as they also follow a five year cycle and avoid playing us as a consequence.) That suggests losing in the play off semis next season, then a dip the following year followed by glory.....
Ultimately, we will be crowned Premier League Champions against the odds in 2041.(Too many custard creams - I've turned into Sol)
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oohaah
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Post by oohaah on Apr 11, 2023 18:15:14 GMT
Demands on the club and the infrastructure could be damaging to a club whose natural level in those measurement is probably lower half National League. In my opinion our natural level is probably going up and down between National League and National League South so for me, being where we are now is doubly fantastic. There are still some great fixtures to come (although I am unable to get to any of them) so let's just enjoy the rest of the season!
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Post by Del on Apr 11, 2023 20:04:23 GMT
I'm intrigued by supporters perception of a natural level. As we have progressed from the Isthmian League some supporters have said in the past that we couldn't survive in the Conference South and so on and so forth. What makes us so different from AFC Wimbledon who went on to play in the highest division. Certainly back in the 1960's they had more ambition than us but you wouldn't say now that their natural level is Non league. There is no natural level for any team if they continue to build their supporter base and infrastructure and that as a club is what we are trying to do. I am very happy that we have become a Football League team which was always my dream and look forward to seeing what we can achieve in the next ten years.
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markf
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Posts: 3,313
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Post by markf on Apr 11, 2023 20:54:38 GMT
There maybe not a natural level as such but a club's level will always be dictated by certain factors.
Capacity of stadium for instance. Unless you're like Bournemouth with hugely wealthy backers (and even they are trying to expand), then there will be a limit to what can be achieved by a club.
The original Wimbledon found that out when they outgrew Plough Lane (it was also badly in need of upgrading) and so Haman opted to ground share at Palace. That didn't work out so well in the end and the club (or at least its fans and no doubt a number of the playing squad) got shafted.
Hard work and great spirit meant they did bounce back but via the long road up The Pyramid. They have a fantastic new ground now but I am not sure all is well at AFCW at present.
I never had any inclination that SUFC would become an EFL club and certainly didn't crave that status. One of the original attractions was watching amateur / non league football and while that may appear a somewhat parochial viewpoint I know I am not alone in having it.
However, now SUFC is in the FL, I wouldn't want to see that come to a grisly end. Not least because of the amount that has been invested in ground improvements and for them to be continued and indeed justified we need to retain our current status for a fair while and continue to attract and hopefully add to the sort of attendances we have seen the last two seasons.
And while finances have to be targeted on the infrastructure the posts about new players etc elsewhere on amber planet need to have perspective. It's a really tough balancing act.
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Post by os on Apr 11, 2023 22:57:43 GMT
There maybe not a natural level as such but a club's level will always be dictated by certain factors. Capacity of stadium for instance. Unless you're like Bournemouth with hugely wealthy backers (and even they are trying to expand), then there will be a limit to what can be achieved by a club. The original Wimbledon found that out when they outgrew Plough Lane (it was also badly in need of upgrading) and so Haman opted to ground share at Palace. That didn't work out so well in the end and the club (or at least its fans and no doubt a number of the playing squad) got shafted. Hard work and great spirit meant they did bounce back but via the long road up The Pyramid. They have a fantastic new ground now but I am not sure all is well at AFCW at present. I never had any inclination that SUFC would become an EFL club and certainly didn't crave that status. One of the original attractions was watching amateur / non league football and while that may appear a somewhat parochial viewpoint I know I am not alone in having it. However, now SUFC is in the FL, I wouldn't want to see that come to a grisly end. Not least because of the amount that has been invested in ground improvements and for them to be continued and indeed justified we need to retain our current status for a fair while and continue to attract and hopefully add to the sort of attendances we have seen the last two seasons. And while finances have to be targeted on the infrastructure the posts about new players etc elsewhere on amber planet need to have perspective. It's a really tough balancing act. You and I don't normally agree, but I think you post is spot on. The fact is the NL Sutton has gone, the new one is a league club with all that goes with it. The new supporters won't be interested in the fact that 5yrs ago we were playing the likes of Margate and Whitehawk, they will be looking at the here and now. No club at any level can look to stay where they are, you always have to look upwards, you have to get better each year just to stay still, and that takes investment, and at ELF2 level that is millions.
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Post by davep on Apr 12, 2023 8:20:55 GMT
In Mark F's last post he said:
"I never had any inclination that SUFC would become an EFL club and certainly didn't crave that status. One of the original attractions was watching amateur / non league football and while that may appear a somewhat parochial viewpoint I know I am not alone in having it.
However, now SUFC is in the FL, I wouldn't want to see that come to a grisly end. Not least because of the amount that has been invested in ground improvements and for them to be continued and indeed justified we need to retain our current status for a fair while and continue to attract and hopefully add to the sort of attendances we have seen the last two seasons.
And while finances have to be targeted on the infrastructure the posts about new players etc elsewhere on amber planet need to have perspective. It's a really tough balancing act."
Totally agree with everything Mark says here - and share his sentiments. The best post that I have seen on this board.
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Post by davethegrave on Apr 12, 2023 19:12:46 GMT
I'm intrigued by supporters perception of a natural level. As we have progressed from the Isthmian League some supporters have said in the past that we couldn't survive in the Conference South and so on and so forth. What makes us so different from AFC Wimbledon who went on to play in the highest division. Certainly back in the 1960's they had more ambition than us but you wouldn't say now that their natural level is Non league. There is no natural level for any team if they continue to build their supporter base and infrastructure and that as a club is what we are trying to do. I am very happy that we have become a Football League team which was always my dream and look forward to seeing what we can achieve in the next ten years. You can't compare us to Wimbledon in that way. They got hijacked and where they should be is League One where the club is that stole them. They had to resurrect themselves from rock bottom. Where were they when they got shafted by the league?
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