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Post by hawksfconline on Nov 18, 2013 13:31:47 GMT
Highlights from Havant & W ... Dm-IRJCW9Q |
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Post by sallycat on Nov 18, 2013 13:36:34 GMT
I say talk of promotion is pie in the sky because that is all it is at the moment. The chances are and the bookies would agree we will be in the play offs this year. Whilst we would then have a chance and being in the play offs is a decent achievement in itself the most likely outcome is not promotion, see Staines, Kingstonian, Welling games of recent years. I am gutted we have gone out of the only worthwhile cup we have a hope of doing well in at the first hurdle to a mid table side at home. Most don't seem at all bothered which surprises me as I thought we as a club have always valued the competition highly. And what's more it is a great revenue raiser which we sure need to keep enabling the financing of the squad, especially important as the local population (business aside it seems) could not care less about Sutton United. If it needs a replay it needs a replay and I was desperately hoping for an equaliser (which I don't think on balance we particularly deserved). Anyway all we can do is crack on in the league now and on paper we have a fairly friendly run and hopefully we can get up and around the top spots. We need to play a lot better than yesterday to do so IMO. I see what you're saying Gareth, but if we get to the playoffs why shouldn't we win? Just because we haven't before doesn't mean we won't ever. In fact, I'd say it's almost irrelevant. For a start, we have different players. The opposition would be different. And when Staines beat us in the Ryman playoffs, wasn't that their third attempt? |
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Post by garethl on Nov 18, 2013 13:51:29 GMT
quote]I see what you're saying Gareth, but if we get to the playoffs why shouldn't we win? Just because we haven't before doesn't mean we won't ever. In fact, I'd say it's almost irrelevant. For a start, we have different players. The opposition would be different. And when Staines beat us in the Ryman playoffs, wasn't that their third attempt?[/quote]
Obviously we would have a chance, same as anyone else but there are 4 teams and I just don't like the odds. I'm not ruling us out before they start and not based on the past, just pointing out there are 4 teams and 3 end up disappointed.
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Post by garethl on Nov 18, 2013 14:09:04 GMT
The time to dream about trips to Wembley is when we have established ourselves in the Conference Premier. Is dreaming of Wembley at the moment more plausible than 'establishing' ourselves in the Conference? Establishing ourselves in the Conference seems like a hard thing to do with a core of 400 people watching. Reckon we need a financial/fan catalyst to be able to establish ourselves in the Conference (as opposed to a year or 2 if we get promoted), Wembley might do that job, or even semi finals? big FA Cup run would be another route, maybe the proposed ground redevelopment could help? At the end of the day to establish ourselves at that level at the moment will rely to a large extent on off field generated income - is that enough? I have my doubts. To my mind our current level is Conference South. Don't get me wrong would love to see us higher and you take it if it comes but can we survive at that level? |
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Post by Andy K on Nov 18, 2013 14:20:18 GMT
Whilst we would then have a chance and being in the play offs is a decent achievement in itself the most likely outcome is not promotion, see Staines, Kingstonian, Welling games of recent years. I am gutted we have gone out of the only worthwhile cup we have a hope of doing well in at the first hurdle to a mid table side at home. Most don't seem at all bothered which surprises me as I thought we as a club have always valued the competition highly. And what's more it is a great revenue raiser which we sure need to keep enabling the financing of the squad, especially important as the local population (business aside it seems) could not care less about Sutton United. If it needs a replay it needs a replay and I was desperately hoping for an equaliser (which I don't think on balance we particularly deserved). Anyway all we can do is crack on in the league now and on paper we have a fairly friendly run and hopefully we can get up and around the top spots. We need to play a lot better than yesterday to do so IMO. Think that's a little harsh on our play off chances - Both with Staines and Welling we were beaten by a better side, although we gave Welling a good run for their money - that 2nd leg was only just short of a fantastic Sutton performance. The Kingstonian game however we fell short, but losing that meant we won the league the following year. It was worth the defeat. Yes it's annoying to go out at the first hurdle, and annoying to lose the 4k that goes with it, but we'd certainly made more than that in the FA Cup run, and I would expect that the budget only took into account 1 trophy win. What we need to do is get back to winning ways. Although we are unbeaten in the league since August, we've not won a game since the Hemel replay. As for the SSC - I have no care for that this year. Not because it's a tinpot cup, but because i'm fed up of getting to the final and under performing. I'd rather us go out early and keep the team as fit as possible than go through that again. |
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Post by Andy K on Nov 18, 2013 14:21:47 GMT
The time to dream about trips to Wembley is when we have established ourselves in the Conference Premier. To my mind our current level is Conference South. Don't get me wrong would love to see us higher and you take it if it comes but can we survive at that level? Welling, a similar sized club both in terms of income, fanbase and budget, seem to be doing ok for the moment. It is possible |
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Post by Stewart on Nov 18, 2013 14:25:02 GMT
Anyone worried about Sutton’s finances can always join Lucky Striker!  PM me for details. |
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Post by garethl on Nov 18, 2013 15:29:59 GMT
Welling are most definitely not established. let's see where they are 2/3 years down the line. I'm not saying it is impossible, just very difficult. If Day goes (one would think a matter of time) where would that leave them? TBH it is a miracle they are where they are considering they couldn't pay their taxes a short time ago. A better idea of the task ahead could be the struggles of Dartford and Woking this year on more than double the support base we have.
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Post by garethl on Nov 18, 2013 15:31:35 GMT
quote]Think that's a little harsh on our play off chances - Both with Staines and Welling we were beaten by a better side, although we gave Welling a good run for their money - that 2nd leg was only just short of a fantastic Sutton performance. The Kingstonian game however we fell short, but losing that meant we won the league the following year. It was worth the defeat.
Yes it's annoying to go out at the first hurdle, and annoying to lose the 4k that goes with it, but we'd certainly made more than that in the FA Cup run, and I would expect that the budget only took into account 1 trophy win.
What we need to do is get back to winning ways. Although we are unbeaten in the league since August, we've not won a game since the Hemel replay.
As for the SSC - I have no care for that this year.
[/quote]
Don't disagree with any of that. That is not the point I was making.
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Post by Del on Nov 18, 2013 15:52:45 GMT
We are giving it a good go to get into the Conference National next season.We have a good squad of quality players and i believe we can win this league providing we don't get too far behind with our fixtures.Talk of will we survive in the next division is as irrelevant as talk of whether we could survive in conference south when we were in the Ryman premier!
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Post by Andy K on Nov 18, 2013 16:15:29 GMT
Welling are most definitely not established. let's see where they are 2/3 years down the line. I'm not saying it is impossible, just very difficult. If Day goes (one would think a matter of time) where would that leave them? TBH it is a miracle they are where they are considering they couldn't pay their taxes a short time ago. A better idea of the task ahead could be the struggles of Dartford and Woking this year on more than double the support base we have. Of course it's difficult. If it was easy we'd be there now. But there are other examples of more established teams there. Braintree for example. If you have a good manager and a supportive board, then it is possible to survive. We've got both. We've certainly got more going for us in long term sustainability than the boom or bust Eastleigh approach. I'm not actually surprised that Woking are struggling - Garry Hill is a good manager when he has a bigger budget than others to play with (e.g. with Woking at Conf South Level, Hornchurch and Weymouth when they both had bigger budgets, and Rushden) - as a manager with a smaller budget, he's dead weight. Burman is again pretty limited in his experience at that too. But then you have a manager like Devonshire at Braintree who don't have a huge budget, and yet time and again he gets the best of what he has (Like nearly getting Hampton to the Conf Prem). And I totally agree that this level is our current natural level. But that should never stop us for aiming as high as we can with the resources we have or can get. Having seen the current best teams in this league, I still think that the title isn't out of our reach. |
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Post by garethl on Nov 18, 2013 17:16:55 GMT
We are giving it a good go to get into the Conference National next season.We have a good squad of quality players and i believe we can win this league providing we don't get too far behind with our fixtures.Talk of will we survive in the next division is as irrelevant as talk of whether we could survive in conference south when we were in the Ryman premier! So talking about winning this league is not irrelevant, but talk of what would happen if we won it is. Got it. Now I know the rules. |
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Post by garethl on Nov 18, 2013 17:34:24 GMT
quote]Of course it's difficult. If it was easy we'd be there now. But there are other examples of more established teams there. Braintree for example. If you have a good manager and a supportive board, then it is possible to survive. We've got both. We've certainly got more going for us in long term sustainability than the boom or bust Eastleigh approach. I'm not actually surprised that Woking are struggling - Garry Hill is a good manager when he has a bigger budget than others to play with (e.g. with Woking at Conf South Level, Hornchurch and Weymouth when they both had bigger budgets, and Rushden) - as a manager with a smaller budget, he's dead weight. Burman is again pretty limited in his experience at that too. But then you have a manager like Devonshire at Braintree who don't have a huge budget, and yet time and again he gets the best of what he has (Like nearly getting Hampton to the Conf Prem).
[/quote]
Interesting comparisons. As well as Dos has done - he obviously runs a good ship, we wouldn't be where we are without him, he has done superbly well etc etc - is he not in a similar boat to Hill and Burman in terms of operating with a good budget for the leagues we are (have been) in and being inexperienced at that level? Perhaps not quite the same extent as Woking in being ahead of the rest but that is reflected in the positions. Has he ever had to work with a small budget in comparision to the rest of the league? Not a criticism, anything but as fully appreciate he had made a huge difference to get the addiitional playing budget.
BTW I am also not writing either Dartford or Woking off at this point, I think the clubs are better equiped to survive at that level than us at the moment.
I digress a little with talking about other clubs but the point I was making was I personally think we need a little extra to be able to sustain us at that level. Going up is fine, something to welcome and enjoy, but the reality at the moment is we will most probably struggle at that level on anything but a short term basis. Perhaps if they let us have a 3g pitch this would make it more viable?
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