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Post by Amber Aleman on Mar 16, 2016 13:27:53 GMT
I couldn't make it last night, so can't comment on the game. It's a shame to have got to the semi-final before self-destructing, but at least the exit spares the club having to fit the final into a demanding end-of-season league schedule. Dos has made it pretty clear over the last few days that his priorities lay firmly with the league, and that might have influenced the players' performance. Whatever the explanation, we've now lost to Godalming Town in three out of four SSC meetings, winning the other 6-0! We are still ahead on aggregate.
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amberchoc
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Post by amberchoc on Mar 16, 2016 14:00:35 GMT
Woking only got 229 through the turnstiles. Given that they normally get double the gates we do, that perhaps shows even greater apathy! They're on a spectacularly bad run at the moment having lost their last 6 league games (and only 2 points gleaned from the last 27 available).
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Post by Suttontilidie on Mar 16, 2016 15:45:35 GMT
It would be easier for a player to be motivated if the club put value in the competition and that's not a case of pointing the finger because I agree with the club's standpoint it's a competition that offers next to nothing, similar to the Ryman League Cup which I seem to remember we did 'poorly' in all three of the seasons we were in it between 08/09 and 10/11. I don't think that it's especially the club - pretty much every club involved at our level or above see it as the most minor of the 4 competitions they play in and in the position we are in where we are serious challengers for the title (every club's bread and butter) if I were manager I'd do exactly the same. The club themselves also realise that the fans are unmotivated too and have dropped their prices accordingly. Whether we like it or not, the glory days of the county cup are long gone, and these were really based at a time where getting into the league was near impossible. And even when we won the league and the Surrey Senior in 99, we still had a group of part time players mostly based in the local area. Come 2016, things are very different, and I think it's a statement of fact that the Surrey FA have taken the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach, whilst not realising that it really is broken. Although Woking is an upgrade, at what point did Surrey realise that Imber Court isn't a suitable venue for their biggest cup final? Even ours to a certain extent isn't that suitable. If Hampshire FA can get Dean Court/St Marys and the Sussex FA can get Brighton's ground year after year, why can't the Surrey FA get Selhurst Park for the final (if indeed they are still affiliated to Surrey). It won't fix the problem, but certainly it would be heading in the right directed - how many more of us and players would take this more seriously if the prize was playing at a premiership ground?Times change and clubs and administrators need to adapt to those changes. We have and we're challenging for the Conference South title. Tooting and Carshalton didn't and they're entrenched in the footballing wilderness that is the Ryman 1 south, when only a few years back we were all playing each other in the same division. Oh I agree, I wasn't singling out our club in particular but it's one that I can say categorically has that viewpoint, but the likelihood of other clubs feeling the same is definitely high. Furthermore I think even if we, or any like-minded club, were in mid table with nothing to play for it wouldn't matter to the club, players or fans though perhaps it could add a small amount of flair to a petering out season but that's not going to be a situation many teams will find themselves in. As someone who was not around to see Sutton play at Wembley on the occasions we have, I'd welcome the chance to play at a ground like Selhurst Park even if it was just for a friendly, which has already been suggested probably isn't too much less 'interesting' than a SSC tie. However I don't think that would really be enough to up the level of interest to what it really 'should' be for what is the top competition for the county. In some countries there are state/county/province leagues/cups and whilst they don't get the same amount of glamour as the national league does I would wager they get a much higher number of spectators. I think Surrey FA do need to accept that this competition is broken and little 'quirks' like that, which as you've said are already a guarantee in other County Cups, would be a step in the right direction, otherwise I don't see anyone changing and that includes myself; I ended up being available last night when Tuesdays would normally be a no go for me but didn't bother because if it's not a competition that we really want to win, get as far as possible or even be in then why should I turn up and pay my money to see it?
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Post by timbo on Mar 16, 2016 17:36:41 GMT
I guess increased sponsorship and the ensuing increased prize money might help to motivate clubs like Sutton to take the competition more seriously
What does the winner get atm?
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Post by timbo on Mar 16, 2016 17:39:58 GMT
I don't think that it's especially the club - pretty much every club involved at our level or above see it as the most minor of the 4 competitions they play in and in the position we are in where we are serious challengers for the title (every club's bread and butter) if I were manager I'd do exactly the same. The club themselves also realise that the fans are unmotivated too and have dropped their prices accordingly. Whether we like it or not, the glory days of the county cup are long gone, and these were really based at a time where getting into the league was near impossible. And even when we won the league and the Surrey Senior in 99, we still had a group of part time players mostly based in the local area. Come 2016, things are very different, and I think it's a statement of fact that the Surrey FA have taken the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach, whilst not realising that it really is broken. Although Woking is an upgrade, at what point did Surrey realise that Imber Court isn't a suitable venue for their biggest cup final? Even ours to a certain extent isn't that suitable. If Hampshire FA can get Dean Court/St Marys and the Sussex FA can get Brighton's ground year after year, why can't the Surrey FA get Selhurst Park for the final (if indeed they are still affiliated to Surrey). It won't fix the problem, but certainly it would be heading in the right directed - how many more of us and players would take this more seriously if the prize was playing at a premiership ground?Times change and clubs and administrators need to adapt to those changes. We have and we're challenging for the Conference South title. Tooting and Carshalton didn't and they're entrenched in the footballing wilderness that is the Ryman 1 south, when only a few years back we were all playing each other in the same division. I ended up being available last night when Tuesdays would normally be a no go for me but didn't bother because if it's not a competition that we really want to win, get as far as possible or even be in then why should I turn up and pay my money to see it? Assuming you are local, and entry was 2 quid rather than 8 quid, would that have influenced your decision to go? (It would for me)
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Post by Suttontilidie on Mar 16, 2016 17:47:12 GMT
I ended up being available last night when Tuesdays would normally be a no go for me but didn't bother because if it's not a competition that we really want to win, get as far as possible or even be in then why should I turn up and pay my money to see it? Assuming you are local, and entry was 2 quid rather than 8 quid, would that have influenced your decision to go? (It would for me) Depends on the weather
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Post by Suttontilidie on Mar 16, 2016 17:50:24 GMT
I guess increased sponsorship and the ensuing increased prize money might help to motivate clubs like Sutton to take the competition more seriously What does the winner get atm? It can't be that worth having or we'd be trying harder to win. Given that Dos got rather animated after our FA Trophy 'replay' win over Concord because it won us £4,000, one would assume it is significantly less than that. I'd be surprised if there is any prize money at all.
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Post by os on Mar 16, 2016 18:34:18 GMT
In 2013 the winners got £2000 while runners up got £1000, I can't find the 2015/16 prizes, but its not going to be a whole lot more. When you think of the huge amounts of money flying around in the upper reaches of the game, its actually quite insulting.
The FA and their local affiliates need to take a look a long hard look at themselves and their competitions.
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markf
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Post by markf on Mar 16, 2016 20:12:31 GMT
I am not going to dwell too much on last night's match, only to say, that in defeat, some of the youngsters will have learnt as much about where they need to get to, to play senior football as they will have done in three victories they experienced prior to last night. They will not have had that opportunity if we did not compete in competitions such as the county cup, so it does have its benefits.
With regards to using Selhurst Park as a final venue what would be the point? If you're lucky a 1,000 people in a ground that holds c 25,000 would be, imo, soul destroying and there would be no atmosphere. The Sussex FA use The Amex but B&HA actually enter the Sussex Senior, Palace don't enter the Surrey.
Imber Court is actually the home of a club parented to London - much like Kingsmeadow is currently AFCW's ground who are also parented to London FA. That really leaves only Woking or Sutton as suitable venues for the final. You could argue that Imperials Fields is an option but I'm not sure the pitch is that great even if the stadium itself is decent.
The 28 day reg rule was brought in to stop sides in the lower levels of football signing players of a certain quality specifically for sf and finals. Not fair on the opposition nor their own players I would have thought. I am not sure it is relevant to the senior competition but was imposed across the board such as these rule changes often are. Perhaps that needs to be looked at.
I am not sure the county will be too concerned that both U's and Woking failed to make the final in terms of football but I suspect on a purely commercial point of view a Woking Sutton final at Kingfield would not have been sneezed at.
Godalming and Mertstham, will, I am sure, enjoy their evening at the County show piece and while the competition may have little relevance to us a club this season, it certainly will to them. Just a shame that the likes of Jack Strange, Sam Doswell and Reyon Dillon as examples of players who did well to help get the team to the sf couldn't get us over the line last night. They would have enjoyed the final, whatever the result, I'm sure.
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amberchoc
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Post by amberchoc on Mar 17, 2016 12:55:21 GMT
I've just got round to reading the programme properly (it always takes several days to summon up the enthusiasm after an upsetting loss!). In Frakey's 'On This Day' article he said that it's only in recent seasons that the two clubs have met....I thought "that doesn't sound right", so I checked and, sure enough, we beat them, nay hammered them, in the F.A. Cup in the 1930's. I cannot believe for one millisecond that Frakey's extensive records don't show that!! Anyway, I took some consolation in the fact that we've pulverised them on more than one occasion in the past!
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tonyd
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Post by tonyd on Mar 17, 2016 15:34:54 GMT
That's a different club. The current one was only formed in 1950.
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markf
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Post by markf on Mar 17, 2016 15:36:30 GMT
The club we played on Tuesday was only formed in 1950. I am aware of the other matches, in the 1930's if I recall, but not the same club and no connection other than the town of Godalming itself.
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tonyd
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Post by tonyd on Mar 17, 2016 15:37:54 GMT
I must be a bit old-fashioned, but this modern concept that so many managers adopt (both Premier League and National League) of fielding under-strength teams in cup competitions (not just the minor cups either), it kind of saddens me.
Some of my fondest memories are of Surrey Senior Cup success, but I've come to the inescapable conclusion that it may not happen again for me.
That is the land of lost content I see it shining plain The happy highways where I went And cannot come again
(A.E. Housman) In some respects, I share your sadness. But on the other hand, we now have a pyramid that can take Sutton all the way to the World Club Championship if we keep on winning. This is the reason that League results have become the be all and end all of club football. Seems like a fair deal to me.
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amberchoc
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Post by amberchoc on Mar 17, 2016 15:43:57 GMT
The club we played on Tuesday was only formed in 1950. I am aware of the other matches, in the 1930's if I recall, but not the same club and no connection other than the town of Godalming itself. Ah, interesting. Unfortunately, that's got me really curious to learn something of the history of the earlier club!
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markf
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Post by markf on Mar 17, 2016 19:24:34 GMT
They were a Surrey Senior League side in the 1930's.
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