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Feb 25, 2015 19:37:43 GMT
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Post by garethl on Feb 25, 2015 19:37:43 GMT
The video is pretty clear cut so maybe you could speculate why your fans need to wait for an investigation to condemn his actions as opposed to the Shaw incident? To my mind they are both instantly sackable offences.
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Feb 26, 2015 9:21:46 GMT
Post by markn on Feb 26, 2015 9:21:46 GMT
That was my point exactly Gareth. A simple case of double standards here I think.
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Feb 26, 2015 10:34:02 GMT
Post by sdg on Feb 26, 2015 10:34:02 GMT
The video is pretty clear cut so maybe you could speculate why your fans need to wait for an investigation to condemn his actions as opposed to the Shaw incident? To my mind they are both instantly sackable offences. Silence doesn't mean we're condoning it. It's obvious that what he's done is wrong and according to the papers he's distraught about it. He's a popular player though so we're not all minded to rush onto the internet to kick him when he's down. And part of this silence means that unlike the Shaw incident, we haven't blamed the whole thing on the opposition fans and painted him as the innocent victim either.
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Feb 26, 2015 10:55:33 GMT
Post by Andy K on Feb 26, 2015 10:55:33 GMT
The video is pretty clear cut so maybe you could speculate why your fans need to wait for an investigation to condemn his actions as opposed to the Shaw incident? To my mind they are both instantly sackable offences. Silence doesn't mean we're condoning it. It's obvious that what he's done is wrong and according to the papers he's distraught about it. He's a popular player though so we're not all minded to rush onto the internet to kick him when he's down. And part of this silence means that unlike the Shaw incident, we haven't blamed the whole thing on the opposition fans and painted him as the innocent victim either. If Shaw was an innocent victim we wouldn't have dismissed him would we? Personally I like Tolfrey and he's a good keeper and this is pretty out of character for him. The double standards are aimed at the Kingstonian fans who went ape when an almost identical thing happened last season with Shaw. Calling for instant dismissal and police involvement. Bognor fans could have said the same, but I'm not sure if they did.
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Feb 26, 2015 11:01:59 GMT
Post by sdg on Feb 26, 2015 11:01:59 GMT
Football fans taking a less lenient attitude to a rival's player than to their own is hardly a surprise, is it? And we did call the police for the Tolfrey incident!
And I meant more the attitude of many of your fans than the club itself. But having said that even your board's press statement when you did dismiss Shaw, while acknowledging that what he did was 'unacceptable' and 'let himself and the club down', implicitly deflected the blame by having a much bigger focus on our fans.
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Feb 26, 2015 11:48:40 GMT
Post by Andy K on Feb 26, 2015 11:48:40 GMT
www.thenonleaguefootballpaper.com/latest-news/conference-south-step-two/9167/shaw-sacked-by-sutton-united-after-clashing-with-fans/You need to read it whilst not wearing your K coloured specs Simon. The statement does not at any point say YOUR fans. It said spectators. Incident happened on a Tuesday, dealt with and done and dusted by Thursday. When you said you called the police for the Tolfrey incident, was it because you wanted Tolfrey to be arrested for assault? I appreciate you are one of the more sensible Ks supporters, but investigation or not, the similarities between the Shaw and Tolfrey incident are clear, and I hope your board has the gumption to handle it in the professional manner that our board did.
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Feb 26, 2015 12:46:27 GMT
Post by sdg on Feb 26, 2015 12:46:27 GMT
Come on Andy. I can see it doesn't name our fans, but the link it's there to infer is pretty obvious when it's in a press release about the Shaw incident.
I actually don't think your board handled it professionally at all. Shaw is quoted in the papers as saying, “I met with Bruce after the play-offs in May, and he said that after what happened, he had to be seen to do something about it and it was with a heavy heart that he sacked me.” You've now brought him back and clearly feel he deserves a second chance now it's blown over, which if he's genuinely remorseful is actually fair enough (although I accept many Ks fans think differently). But to me that stinks of sacking him as a PR exercise, not handling it in a professional manner (which to me would be either sacking and condemning, or backing with a second chance from the off), and if you ask Nick he'll tell you that's been my view since way before this week.
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Feb 26, 2015 13:22:51 GMT
Post by Andy K on Feb 26, 2015 13:22:51 GMT
Come on Andy. I can see it doesn't name our fans, but the link it's there to infer is pretty obvious when it's in a press release about the Shaw incident. I actually don't think your board handled it professionally at all. Shaw is quoted in the papers as saying, “I met with Bruce after the play-offs in May, and he said that after what happened, he had to be seen to do something about it and it was with a heavy heart that he sacked me.” You've now brought him back and clearly feel he deserves a second chance now it's blown over, which if he's genuinely remorseful is actually fair enough (although I accept many Ks fans think differently). But to me that stinks of sacking him as a PR exercise, not handling it in a professional manner (which to me would be either sacking and condemning, or backing with a second chance from the off), and if you ask Nick he'll tell you that's been my view since way before this week. I'm sure you are smart enough to know that any sort of statement that comes out will be read in a number of different ways, however clear the source makes it. But as I've said to you before, there is a minority of your fans which I find totally abhorrent and as we well know can't let things go - even 15 years on there will still be some who feel that Steve Mckimm is the devil incarnate (and make it known) to such an extent that they came to a Sutton game a couple of years ago when a Ks match was called off just to shout abuse at him (and I'm not even going to mention the Casuals game). My personal opinion on Tolfrey is that actually he shouldn't be sacked or "arrested" because for sure he didn't jump over the fence without thinking in his mind he had a reason to, and that reason was more than likely some abusive behaviour from those fans behind the goal. But as a paid member of a club he cannot go without punishment, and that punishment should be more administered by the appropriate FA. And I agree that the club should take action against those who initiated the incident, which are more than likely opposing fans. As I've said on here before, fans think they can say what they like because "they've paid their money". Certainly there has been the odd occasion where a minority of our fans have done exactly that this season. But putting that into practice is easier said than done, especially when it's away fans. Do you know if there was any comeback to your fans over the Shaw incident?
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Feb 26, 2015 14:06:36 GMT
Post by sdg on Feb 26, 2015 14:06:36 GMT
Yep, agree with most of this. The FA are there to hand out punishments, so if they do their job properly then clubs don't need to sack players every time they do something bad, just so they aren't seen as 'getting away with it'. With Shaw I don't know why it wasn't followed up by the FA but it should have been, and it probably did irk us a bit when he rocked up at Gosport the following week. Obviously with the video going viral there will now be an FA investigation into Tolfrey, but I'm glad we haven't immediately sacked him before any of us, the FA or the Police are done investigating it. And if his punishment is an FA ban then pending the outcome of what exactly went on, I don't necessarily think he needs to be sacked too.
As for comeback over the Shaw incident, I don't know. I didn't see it myself (Nick can testify to that too) and the accounts from our fans differ widely from the accounts from your fans. If any specific individuals were accused of any specific things then maybe there was; if it was just a generic 'Ks fans were rowdy and abusive' then I doubt there was.
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Feb 26, 2015 14:57:03 GMT
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Post by sallycat on Feb 26, 2015 14:57:03 GMT
Not specific individuals as far as I know, but I do know of some mitigating circumstances around the Shaw incident that make me confident that welcoming him back is a fair thing to do.
I have made no such judgements about this incident, precisely because I'm not privy to this sort of info from Ks. Which is as it should be.
However, I did want to point out that at the time nearly all our fans who commented said Shaw shouldn't have done what he did and the club had no choice but to let him go (before they even had). Even Shaw himself agreed and that's why he's back. I'm sure he wouldn't be if he denied any culpability.
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Feb 28, 2015 22:33:30 GMT
Post by Amber Aleman on Feb 28, 2015 22:33:30 GMT
I see that Tolfrey played for Ks today. The investigation into Monday's incident is obviously taking time.
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Mar 1, 2015 9:15:18 GMT
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Post by garethl on Mar 1, 2015 9:15:18 GMT
Astonishing!
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Mar 1, 2015 16:40:12 GMT
Post by Del on Mar 1, 2015 16:40:12 GMT
I understand Tolfrey was punched by a Bognor fan.
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Mar 1, 2015 16:43:26 GMT
Post by Stewart on Mar 1, 2015 16:43:26 GMT
I understand Tolfrey was punched by a Bognor fan. After he left the field, or before?
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Mar 1, 2015 18:07:36 GMT
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Post by markn on Mar 1, 2015 18:07:36 GMT
It don't matter what the Bognor fan did. You cannot leave the field of play. It wasn't right when Wayne or Cantona did it whatever the provocation and K's made a huge error playing him.
It sends out the wrong signal and if they want to paint it any other way then as long as they feel good eh!
Double faced and hypocritical. Over to you SDG
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