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Post by Andy K on Jan 27, 2016 14:41:07 GMT
Spot on Chesh! This team is fast becoming my favourite Dos squad ever, overtaking our Ryman champions!
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Post by Stewart on Jan 27, 2016 14:58:01 GMT
Let's worry about this in April In terms of home/away advantage - we've still lost all of our home play off games (Kingstonian, Welling, Dover), but have managed to draw 2 out of our 3 away play off fixtures. Mind you, we didn't have the pitch we have now. Or the team? (discuss). A good mixture age wise. Having a young midfield is key this season. Recent teams have been a little too experienced (slow) We also have players on the bench who would get in most side in this league.
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medibot
1st team Player
Posts: 1,341
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Post by medibot on Jan 28, 2016 1:05:53 GMT
How would you change it? 4th v 5th, winners play away to 3rd. 2nd place play the winner at home in the final? There's a far more simple solution to make sure the higher placed team gets home advantage. Don't play two legs. This has and always will be the solution the play off problem. Otherwise the side who sneaks into 5th on the last day have home advantage in the first leg over a side who could be over a dozen points ahead of them. One game played at the ground of the higher ranked team (2nd v 5th and 3rd v 4th) is much fairer. The fifth placed side are usually nowhere near winning the league and yet they get first leg advantage over a side who could well have lost the title on goal difference.
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Post by garethl on Jan 28, 2016 7:45:49 GMT
I'm not sure it's any sort of advantage being at home in the first leg. Also some might say that the stronger team is more likely to go through over 2 legs than in a one off tie?!
Anyway play offs aren't fair, they are not meant to be. Just need to get on with it. If it was done fairly obviously after 42 games of hard graft the 2nd placed side goes up! Perhaps the better question is do we need or want play offs in this league? I still like them for the way they keep the league alive for so many clubs.
At least it's not as bad as rugby where you can 'win' the league and still not win the championship!!
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Post by sallycat on Jan 28, 2016 9:12:55 GMT
On paper it makes sense that the stronger team will prevail over two legs, but in practice there's a lot more going on. A hell of a lot in the playoffs, to paraphrase Kevin Keegan, is about psychology. A team that's just given its all for one last push to claim the title only to be pipped at the post is not in a good position to beat another strong team, albeit one that finished a few places behind them, away from home. When we travelled to Dover in the playoffs we had the look of a psychologically burnt-out side. On the other hand, a team that wasn't necessarily expecting to be in the playoffs but has an unexpected chance to go up via the back door by playing a higher-placed side will be all adrenalin fuelled and up for it. How much more is a team likely to raise its game for higher placed opposition? That's why cup upsets happen. Also, why do we need to see who's stronger over two games/have to expect that from the higher placed side? That's what the entire season has been about. They've already proved what they needed to prove over 42 games. I do realise that looks like an argument against the playoffs entirely, but there's a balance between giving mid-table sides something to play for in the second half of the season and over-egging the pudding. If a side has shown itself good enough over 42 games to be 2nd or 3rd in the league then IMO it deserves some recognition of that when promotion places are decided. You're right though, there's nothing we can do about it so we just have to get on with it. Or we could catch Ebbsfleet and solve our perennial playoff problem
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Post by garethl on Jan 28, 2016 10:28:00 GMT
Yeah I disagree with most of your first couple of paragraphs, your third is the big argument against play offs full stop. I just think play offs happen between the better league sides by definition so a lower placed play off side will be capable of winning. Form, confidence and fitness may come into it but I'm not sure any side isn't going to be right up for play off matches, big games in front of biggish crowds.
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Post by amberchoc on Jan 28, 2016 10:46:04 GMT
To my mind, just having straight one-legged semi-finals (2nd v 5th and 3rd v 4th) doesn't quite go far enough. As we found out to our cost, it only takes an inspired Bobby Traynor and that's 9 months of hard work down the toilet pan.
This is what I wrote after the Dover defeat:
"Play-offs ought to stay purely because it keeps more teams in the division involved in the chase for promotion for longer. As already mentioned though, the system really needs to be changed and the idea mooted is much fairer. Just to expand on it: Single leg affairs - 4th at home to 5th on the Saturday after the regular season finishes, then 3rd at home to the winners on the following Tuesday or Wednesday and then 2nd at home to those winners on the next Saturday. That way the 5th placed team would really have their work cut out to gain promotion (as it should be) and the team finishing 2nd would have proper advantages, only needing to win one game and being able to rest and re-charge for a fortnight and get the opportunity to clear up some injuries."
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Post by sallycat on Jan 28, 2016 11:06:40 GMT
I do actually think that's a good idea. The only issue is the amount of time it would take when you can't play games in parallel. But thinking about it, if you have a two-legged semi-final, it's only one more game to play.
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Post by garethl on Jan 28, 2016 12:32:53 GMT
Not adverse to the idea but 2nd place will lose a couple of times and people will bleat about them being rusty whilst the others had a game or 2 of competitive football to keep them sharp.
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Post by sallycat on Jan 28, 2016 13:48:42 GMT
Yeah, I thought the same. Depends on the time allowed between each game, I guess.
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Post by amberchoc on Jan 28, 2016 15:42:06 GMT
Yeah, I thought the same. Depends on the time allowed between each game, I guess. Je répète:
Single leg affairs - 4th at home to 5th on the Saturday after the regular season finishes, then 3rd at home to the winners on the following Tuesday or Wednesday and then 2nd at home to those winners on the next Saturday.
It would only be some fans of the sour-grape variety that do any bleating (to use Gareth's term!). After a long, hard season, the players themselves would welcome a fortnight before such a crunch match.
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Post by Andy K on Jan 28, 2016 16:29:46 GMT
There's a couple of points here that I can see:
1) The play off set up. Whilst it's not an ideal system, we know what it is at the start of the competition and from what I know it can only be addressed at the appropriate member club meetings. Whilst there's no real advantage aside from being at home in the 2nd leg, any team that ends up in the play offs usually has won more away from home than they've lost, it just has to be treated as a cup final, unless you go down the road of all sorts of madnesses such as giving a goal advantage to the higher placed team, or if it ends up in a draw the higher placed team gets through. The fact is as well is that every league above and below use the same system to decide the semis, but at our level there's home advantage in the final, so oddly enough there's slightly more advantage to those finishing 2nd here than at National level.
2) Is there a point to the play offs? Well when we finished 5th there was, but when we finished 2nd there wasn't. I've always been pro play offs myself as it gives a lot more teams something to play for in the closing stages of the season. Usually it's the team in the best form that gets through however, regardless of where they finish. That season where we finished 6th and ended with the 4-0 thumping we gave Bath at Twerton Park, if we'd made the play offs we'd probably have won as we'd hit form then, but every team has ups and downs. The season before where we limped into the play offs thanks to a win against Farnborough I didn't think we'd get through (although I thought we gave our best ever play off performance at Welling).
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medibot
1st team Player
Posts: 1,341
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Post by medibot on Jan 29, 2016 0:30:46 GMT
it only takes an inspired Bobby Traynor and that's 9 months of hard work down the toilet pan. I told some K's supporting friends after that game that they'd seen the peak of Bobby's career with that superb volley and they weren't having it. It's not often I'm 100% correct with my opinions but I definitely was then.
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