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Post by davethegrave on Dec 2, 2018 22:05:29 GMT
Imagine a yellow boot stamping on a carshalton face forever Now that is a bit out of order! What are you going to say about that Andy?
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trev
1st team skipper
In Matt We Trust
Posts: 2,477
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Post by trev on Dec 2, 2018 22:24:04 GMT
That as literary allusions go, it's pretty good?
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Post by Andy K on Dec 3, 2018 0:37:41 GMT
Imagine a yellow boot stamping on a carshalton face forever Now that is a bit out of order! What are you going to say about that Andy? Can't add anything to this. I'm too full of my own self importance.
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Post by davethegrave on Dec 3, 2018 21:09:59 GMT
Yes. You're more worried about hurting someone's feelings than a threat of physical violence.
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Post by Andy K on Dec 3, 2018 21:17:47 GMT
Yes. You're more worried about hurting someone's feelings than a threat of physical violence. Extraordinary. I have no words.
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Post by sallycat on Dec 3, 2018 21:35:54 GMT
Yes. You're more worried about hurting someone's feelings than a threat of physical violence. Can you really not tell the difference between a rhetorical device - which does not refer to any specific individual - and publicly discussing an individual's private business in a way that could potentially do them real harm, or are you just pretending to be stupid? I hope it's the latter.
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Post by VCLXI on Dec 4, 2018 0:41:52 GMT
I'd assume the latter. More akin to trolling than anything else.
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Post by davethegrave on Dec 4, 2018 22:50:41 GMT
Yes. You're more worried about hurting someone's feelings than a threat of physical violence. Extraordinary. I have no words. Now that'll be a first!
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billy
1st team skipper
Posts: 2,627
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Post by billy on Dec 4, 2018 23:11:28 GMT
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Post by timbo on Dec 5, 2018 3:22:34 GMT
Yes. You're more worried about hurting someone's feelings than a threat of physical violence. Can you really not tell the difference between a rhetorical device - which does not refer to any specific individual - and publicly discussing an individual's private business in a way that could potentially do them real harm, or are you just pretending to be stupid? I hope it's the latter. Earlier on I did ask which issues are authorised for forum discussion, and which must be discussed down the pub, so, from your perspective, Amber Planet contributors may gleefully post rhetorical reveries about violence towards other football supporters, so long as they do not refer to any specific individual, but, on this football forum, they should avoid discussing a footballer’s performance and ability?
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Post by timbo on Dec 5, 2018 3:46:04 GMT
Dos has been here 10 years plus. And yes it's easy to speculate who may go and who may stay based on previous. I just question whether it's right to do that sort of speculation on a public forum. Personally I feel that's best left for a chat with your mates down the pub rather than here. Just because some may feel it's easy to speculate, doesn't mean that we should. I'd rather focus on Saturday's game where we face possibly the weakest team in the league. Mind you, weakest teams in the league have come to our place and done a job. Whatever we speculate or think, no one here picks the team, and no amount of speculation on here will change what our management team put out on the pitch on Saturday. And I'm very happy with that outcome. I appreciate your concern and if we were discussing a player’s private life on the forum I would agree that it might well be inappropriate. However, imho, discussing their performance whilst representing the club in front of some 2000 paying supporters is entirely acceptable on a football forum
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Post by timbo on Dec 5, 2018 3:58:23 GMT
Here's my 2p worth: I don't think suggesting having a bit of restraint when discussing people's employment status in a public forum really counts as "thought police." Nor do I think fear of said "thought police" is the only reason for doing so. Do you know, some people actually avoid doing crappy things to others out of respect rather than fear? Amazing, innit. In other words, personally, I don't think I'd enjoy it if members of the public were discussing whether I might be about to lose my job. As per my post above, discussing your job performance on Amber Planet, without your approval, would indeed be inappropriate, however, this is foremost a Sutton United forum for discussion about the club and, by extension, evaluation and opinion of the players' performance is appropriate and should not be stifled
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Post by Jared on Dec 5, 2018 6:24:28 GMT
Here's my 2p worth: I don't think suggesting having a bit of restraint when discussing people's employment status in a public forum really counts as "thought police." Nor do I think fear of said "thought police" is the only reason for doing so. Do you know, some people actually avoid doing crappy things to others out of respect rather than fear? Amazing, innit. In other words, personally, I don't think I'd enjoy it if members of the public were discussing whether I might be about to lose my job. As per my post above, discussing your job performance on Amber Planet, without your approval, would indeed be inappropriate, however, this is foremost a Sutton United forum for discussion about the club and, by extension, evaluation and opinion of the players' performance is appropriate and should not be stifled Whilst you have the right to discuss those kind of things on a forum such as these, there are possible and potential consequences. One is that people will disagree with you doing so and another, highlighted by Dos in his most recent post match interview is that it can negatively impact the player or players involved. Call me old fashioned but I’m of the opinion that a supporters job is to support the team and the players, particularly in public. Yes, I may moan or speculate in private amongst friends, but I try my best to be supportive in public, including trying not to have a go at individual players which also includes suggesting that some may be leaving the club or struggling with form
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Post by sallycat on Dec 5, 2018 7:59:26 GMT
I think discussing players' performance is fine, but talking about who we think might lose their jobs is crossing a line. It's a subtle line so I understand why it might be hard to see the difference but in my mind there most definitely is a difference between "X has been playing really well lately but Y hasn't reached his potential in the last few games" and "Dos has got to be looking at getting rid of Z, he needs to go." Note that there are no rules about doing this. There are just a number of people here who think it's really disrespectful and unfair and also could undermine players' confidence which none of us wants. Let me reiterate, nobody is stopping anyone making those sorts of posts, there are just people who think we shouldn't. Andy K, for example, has the power to delete posts that break forum rules. Has he deleted these ones? No.
As for the violent imagery, personally I don't like it as a rule. But for crying out loud, this was obvious satire. It was clearly a parody of the quote from 1984: "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." If you think that was meant literally then I suggest you read or re-read that book.
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Post by Andy K on Dec 5, 2018 9:20:46 GMT
Let's just be very clear. Discussing players in such a way isn't "unauthorised" in any shape or form, and no posts were censored or deleted. That continues to be the case. I posted as an individual about whether saying such things in a public place, which can be read by other fans (both of our club and beyond), the management of the side, the wider general public and most importantly the people concerned is a good way to go about it. That's not a difficult concept to understand is it? To suggest that things are "authorised" or not is plainly ludicrous in this context.
Just imagine for one moment that Dos came onto this forum and started naming fans individually questioning their support or commitment or having a go at them for "not singing enough". How would you react to that if it was about you?
This will inevitably fall back to the "I'm allowed my opinion, free speech, you're not the thought police etc". Sure, but if you struggle to accept the fact that others disagree with your opinion (and when those lines are put out there, it's usually in that sort of situation) or you can't accept that your opinions sometimes have an effect elsewhere and you don't feel any responsibility, then maybe the issue isn't the other posters on the forum, or the forum itself.
We've all got one thing in common. We support our club. Let's focus on that eh?
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