billy
1st team skipper
Posts: 2,626
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Post by billy on Nov 25, 2019 22:21:15 GMT
An unusual winning goal............
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Post by os on Nov 25, 2019 23:52:29 GMT
I wonder if your sad face is because it was a shame people used to be restricted to specific interests because of their gender, meaning those who might have made brilliant male netball players or female footballers (and hugely enjoyed it) sadly had their talents wasted...or because you think it's a bad thing that's no longer the case! Well, you can be as old fashioned as you like as long as you don't try to stop other people doing what they enjoy/are good at for absolutely no good reason like people used to do "in your day," Billy! Where you and I don't see eye to eye is that I have always felt that a women should feel like she needs to do what a man does to attain equal status. To me the traditional roles of women have been under valued rather than equalized. One example is a traditional housewife (or house husband) who looks after the children etc, has no value in today's society. 2 adults (man / wife or whatever combination you like), both working, children in childcare on 25k a year each, takes home far more money than 1 staying at home and 1 x 50k job. Its just plain wrong. That is not saying women should not be able to do any job or play any sport they want.
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Post by sallycat on Nov 26, 2019 10:34:22 GMT
That's not a thing we fundamentally disagree on. What we disagree on is who should decide what should be priority when it comes to gender equality.
A lot of jobs people agree are way underpaid are jobs traditionally done by women (nursing, teaching, adult social care etc) and I agree that's awful and needs to change. Childcare and housework are massively undervalued, yes. Massively. But recent studies show something between 75%-90% of domestic work (including care of one's own children) is still done by women even in households where both partners have full time paid jobs. Like me, for example!
Now I don't know whether I can speak for the majority of women, but the several I've discussed this with agree with me: It's not that we want more recognition or better pay for doing these things. We just don't want to do all of it ourselves. We want equal access to the fulfilling and interesting stuff men generally get to do more of. I don't know if I've interpreted your post correctly os, but you seem to be saying you want women to carry on doing that 75-90% but get more recognition/paid more for the work we do. However, I and others like me would far rather do 50% of the housework, 50% of the cleaning and domestic upkeep, 50% of the childcare than get paid more for doing the same boring, thankless and draining work. Some of us do not enjoy it. We're not all natural mothers and nestmakers.
It's not that I think women ought to do the same things as men, more that these things don't necessarily need to be gendered at all. For example, a woman doesn't become a research physicist or rugby player because she wants to be able to do the same jobs men can do, she does it because it's something that interests her and she's good at it. One reason why women don't do these things so much is that historically, and to a smaller extent still, those things aren't open to us. Not because we don't want to do them. Just because we have traditionally been pushed towards caring and nurturing roles doesn't mean that's what we all want to do.
(By the way, I'm finding this discussion really interesting but I'll shut up if people think it isn't suitable for a football forum. Obviously we were talking about women's football but it's hard to explain some views without looking at the wider context.)
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Post by Amber Aleman on Nov 26, 2019 10:57:36 GMT
As the person who kicked off this thread, and has seen it go off on a couple of tangents, I'm more than happy for the discussion to continue.
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Post by fluffy rascal on Nov 26, 2019 11:11:39 GMT
Whilst we're off tangent anyone know if we have baby changing facilities at the club?
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Post by sallycat on Nov 26, 2019 12:30:49 GMT
Of course there are some in the ladies' toilets. Perhaps someone could tell if there are any in the gents' (or the indoor unisex disabled toilet)?
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Post by fluffy rascal on Nov 26, 2019 12:36:40 GMT
Yes, sorry, meant to say male baby changing facilities ( not specifically a male baby, but he is anyway)
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kpinwp
1st team Player
Posts: 1,190
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Post by kpinwp on Nov 26, 2019 14:13:30 GMT
I haven't seen any baby changing facilities in any of the gents'. That I can recall. Don't know about in the disabled toilet.
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Post by sallycat on Nov 26, 2019 14:30:02 GMT
There aren't any in the outdoor one by the Colingwood Rec exit, at least.
It's rather infuriating how common it is to find baby changing facilities in the ladies' but not the gents'. I'm not specifically talking about our ground, more generally. It's frustrating for mothers because we're sick of people expecting us to do all the baby related work, and it's equally frustrating for fathers who are sick of people expecting them to be incompetent or uninterested when it comes to parenting.
Funny that when I was a girl so many people assumed I was only into football because my dad took me down there (he didn't) and people expect dads to take their kids to football, yet apparently this should only apply once they're out of nappies?
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kpinwp
1st team Player
Posts: 1,190
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Post by kpinwp on Nov 26, 2019 16:38:33 GMT
It was probably a lot less complicated years ago...
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Post by brisfitboy on Nov 26, 2019 17:08:58 GMT
As a slight bifurcation from sports trends re equality: In my final year at school instead of metalwork, which I was useless at, I along with another boy took Physiology and Hygiene as a GCE subject, this was a “girls” subject in those days-early 60’s-and we had to fight to get accepted and although I never became a doctor or a vet it certainly came in handy for my first aid courses ever after.
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billy
1st team skipper
Posts: 2,626
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Post by billy on Nov 26, 2019 19:28:25 GMT
Anyone taking a baby to a football match must surely need their brains tested,especially in conditions like we see tonight.It's selfish and irresponsible and should probably be attracting the interest of the RSPCC.
Also it's one thing popping out for a couple of hours to watch home matches while leaving your child/children with your partner but quite another disappearing at regular intervals to all parts of the country and only arriving back when your child is asleep.
Instead of standing behind the goal wearing silly replica shirts and singing banal songs on a cold,wet winter's night people should be at home playing with and reading to their children.
Your children need you there at night to read them a bedtime story,tuck them in and kiss them goodnight.
Pleaase,get a grip.
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billy
1st team skipper
Posts: 2,626
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Post by billy on Nov 26, 2019 19:32:22 GMT
On the subject of ladies and sport,i once went out with a girl from Brighton who was a top ranked sprinter.In fact..........She was faster than most and she lived on the coast.
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Post by sallycat on Nov 26, 2019 19:51:23 GMT
Anyone taking a baby to a football match must surely need their brains tested,especially in conditions like we see tonight.It's selfish and irresponsible and should probably be attracting the interest of the RSPCC. Also it's one thing popping out for a couple of hours to watch home matches while leaving your child/children with your partner but quite another disappearing at regular intervals to all parts of the country and only arriving back when your child is asleep. Instead of standing behind the goal wearing silly replica shirts and singing banal songs on a cold,wet winter's night people should be at home playing with and reading to their children. Your children need you there at night to read them a bedtime story,tuck them in and kiss them goodnight. Pleaase,get a grip. You can't be serious. If you are you know absolutely nothing about how to care for a baby. You clearly know even less about how damaging it can be to the parent/child relationship if one parent is with them 24/7 and never gets a break. You go ahead and tell the RSPCC, if you can manage it since they don't even exist.
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Post by fluffy rascal on Nov 26, 2019 21:00:27 GMT
Anyone taking a baby to a football match must surely need their brains tested,especially in conditions like we see tonight.It's selfish and irresponsible and should probably be attracting the interest of the RSPCC. Also it's one thing popping out for a couple of hours to watch home matches while leaving your child/children with your partner but quite another disappearing at regular intervals to all parts of the country and only arriving back when your child is asleep. Instead of standing behind the goal wearing silly replica shirts and singing banal songs on a cold,wet winter's night people should be at home playing with and reading to their children. Your children need you there at night to read them a bedtime story,tuck them in and kiss them goodnight. Pleaase,get a grip. I'm so sorry Billy, you're absolutely right, I'm a complete idiot for taking my baby to football. Although sorry to waste your phone call to the RSPCB as I'm not there tonight. I should be there with the baby on Saturday so you're well within your right to come up to me and reprimand me, see you then.
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