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Post by Andy K on Aug 27, 2020 14:54:33 GMT
Personally I'm quite sympathetic to the point that you're making, Andy. But it does rest on what I think of as the 'I do what Mummy advises as I love Mummy and Mummy is wiser than me' position. That will take you a long way, until Mummy advises something that I really don't want to do and have picked up conflicting advice about. In this case, face masks, although very widely adhered to when compulsory are not in themselves much liked. Addtionally (to the best of my knowledge) there is no other outdoor area in which the wearing of them is either compuslory or advised. Correct me if I'm wrong on the latter. If I recall, most of the people on this thread who have offered a personal take on this have said that they would wear masks if required to but would rather not if they don't have to. (Apologies for not double checking that) Would it be possible, or worth, the club conducting some sort of poll about this, though? Masks-advisory-would you wear? We only constitute a tiny sample of fan opinion on here, but even here there are clearly a variety of views on this. I get a lot of what you are saying, but I have to comment on your first paragraph. It's purely and simply about trusting the club to make the best call for as many people as possible. I repeat, they are in a much better position than any of us watching from the sidelines about how best to do that. Not only that, they take their responsibility very seriously. DaveF has been decent enough to give us a vague update, not out of lack of transparency, but because it's a fluid situation and we're still 5 weeks or so away from people actually going back into the ground. A lot can happen between now and then. In the outside world, cases may start and continue to decline so the mask argument may well answer itself. Or things could happen as they are in France or Spain where cases are climbing steeply and in cities like Madrid masks are obligatory in all public spaces, indoor or outdoor. Even last month, the head of the UK's national academy of science said "If you are in a crowded place, wear a mask". The big issue here is not people's personal viewpoint. In all honesty, it's not really hugely relevant to the discussion. Whatever the club decide to do and how they decide to play it, every person who could go to a game will have to make their choice based on that decision, and knowing human nature some will be happier than others. I agree that masks are not well liked, but again that's actually irrelevant to the discussion. Before I get accused of being a sycophant, I'm sure many people on here will know that I've disagreed before to what the club have done (especially over the ticketing issue V Arsenal). This time I'm trusting in what they do. I think we could do a lot worse than to dismiss that before the club officially sets out it's stall on this, and pretending to be a mindreader on what state we will be in with this stupid virus come October. Just have faith in them. |
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Rambo
1st team Player
Posts: 1,691
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Post by Rambo on Aug 27, 2020 17:43:43 GMT
Personally I'm quite sympathetic to the point that you're making, Andy. But it does rest on what I think of as the 'I do what Mummy advises as I love Mummy and Mummy is wiser than me' position. That will take you a long way, until Mummy advises something that I really don't want to do and have picked up conflicting advice about. In this case, face masks, although very widely adhered to when compulsory are not in themselves much liked. Addtionally (to the best of my knowledge) there is no other outdoor area in which the wearing of them is either compuslory or advised. Correct me if I'm wrong on the latter. If I recall, most of the people on this thread who have offered a personal take on this have said that they would wear masks if required to but would rather not if they don't have to. (Apologies for not double checking that) Would it be possible, or worth, the club conducting some sort of poll about this, though? Masks-advisory-would you wear? We only constitute a tiny sample of fan opinion on here, but even here there are clearly a variety of views on this. Hi kpinwp Regarding the wearing of masks, I've just finished a shift at Chelmsford Racecourse, and wearing them IS compulsory when in certain areas ( ie in parade rings ) |
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kpinwp
1st team Player
Posts: 1,248
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Post by kpinwp on Aug 27, 2020 17:53:00 GMT
Personally I'm quite sympathetic to the point that you're making, Andy. But it does rest on what I think of as the 'I do what Mummy advises as I love Mummy and Mummy is wiser than me' position. That will take you a long way, until Mummy advises something that I really don't want to do and have picked up conflicting advice about. In this case, face masks, although very widely adhered to when compulsory are not in themselves much liked. Addtionally (to the best of my knowledge) there is no other outdoor area in which the wearing of them is either compuslory or advised. Correct me if I'm wrong on the latter. If I recall, most of the people on this thread who have offered a personal take on this have said that they would wear masks if required to but would rather not if they don't have to. (Apologies for not double checking that) Would it be possible, or worth, the club conducting some sort of poll about this, though? Masks-advisory-would you wear? We only constitute a tiny sample of fan opinion on here, but even here there are clearly a variety of views on this. Hi kpinwp Regarding the wearing of masks, I've just finished a shift at Chelmsford Racecourse, and wearing them IS compulsory when in certain areas ( ie in parade rings ) Interesting! Much appreciated, Rambo. |
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Post by os on Aug 27, 2020 20:52:44 GMT
The salient point is, and will always be, that I trust the club more than enough to do the right thing. They know the parameters, they know the law, they know the regulations specific to their venue better than all of us. They also won't do anything deliberately to risk any individual that comes into the ground or club. If the club say "wearing a mask isn't compulsory, but we advise it", then unless there is an appropriate (and usually medical) reason not to wear one, then perhaps the right attitude is to wear one. Not because you are told to, but because the club you love is advising you to. The bottom line is that those making the decisions on trying to make the ground Covid safe will know a hell of a lot more about it than the casual fan and are putting all their efforts into doing the right thing. The club is in a very difficult position, the COVID officers job is a poisoned challis, but you are right in saying the club will do the very best they can of that I have no doubt at all. But to state the club will do the right thing isn't really accurate because neither DF, the club, me, you etc know what the right thing is, if we did know we would be very rich in a short period of time. Putting 1500-1800 people in a football ground masks or no masks is going to be a risky business in what looks to be the beginnings of a second wave across Europe. I personally think football should be played behind closed doors until January with financial support for clubs. I accept that is not going to happen, and the club have to play by the rules laid down to them. The fact is there is very likely to be people in the ground with COVID, there will definitely be an element of fans who do not respect social distancing such is the nature of the clientele unfortunately. |
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kpinwp
1st team Player
Posts: 1,248
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Post by kpinwp on Aug 27, 2020 22:15:50 GMT
The salient point is, and will always be, that I trust the club more than enough to do the right thing. They know the parameters, they know the law, they know the regulations specific to their venue better than all of us. They also won't do anything deliberately to risk any individual that comes into the ground or club. If the club say "wearing a mask isn't compulsory, but we advise it", then unless there is an appropriate (and usually medical) reason not to wear one, then perhaps the right attitude is to wear one. Not because you are told to, but because the club you love is advising you to. The bottom line is that those making the decisions on trying to make the ground Covid safe will know a hell of a lot more about it than the casual fan and are putting all their efforts into doing the right thing. The club is in a very difficult position, the COVID officers job is a poisoned challis, but you are right in saying the club will do the very best they can of that I have no doubt at all. But to state the club will do the right thing isn't really accurate because neither DF, the club, me, you etc know what the right thing is, if we did know we would be very rich in a short period of time. Putting 1500-1800 people in a football ground masks or no masks is going to be a risky business in what looks to be the beginnings of a second wave across Europe. I personally think football should be played behind closed doors until January with financial support for clubs. I accept that is not going to happen, and the club have to play by the rules laid down to them. The fact is there is very likely to be people in the ground with COVID, there will definitely be an element of fans who do not respect social distancing such is the nature of the clientele unfortunately. In the last recorded week (17th - 23rd Aug) there were 26 recorded cases of Covid in the London Borough of Sutton. Population of the Borough is slightly over 200,000. That's approx 1 case per 8,000 people. So, while there may be someone coming to the ground with Covid, I couldn't describe it as being likely. Well, OK, you might get one person. On those figures I can't see it being more. Things may get worse or they may not but that's where we are at the moment. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274 |
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jr
1st team skipper
Posts: 2,198
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Post by jr on Aug 28, 2020 7:00:45 GMT
The salient point is, and will always be, that I trust the club more than enough to do the right thing. They know the parameters, they know the law, they know the regulations specific to their venue better than all of us. They also won't do anything deliberately to risk any individual that comes into the ground or club. If the club say "wearing a mask isn't compulsory, but we advise it", then unless there is an appropriate (and usually medical) reason not to wear one, then perhaps the right attitude is to wear one. Not because you are told to, but because the club you love is advising you to. The bottom line is that those making the decisions on trying to make the ground Covid safe will know a hell of a lot more about it than the casual fan and are putting all their efforts into doing the right thing. The club is in a very difficult position, the COVID officers job is a poisoned challis, but you are right in saying the club will do the very best they can of that I have no doubt at all. But to state the club will do the right thing isn't really accurate because neither DF, the club, me, you etc know what the right thing is, if we did know we would be very rich in a short period of time. Putting 1500-1800 people in a football ground masks or no masks is going to be a risky business in what looks to be the beginnings of a second wave across Europe. I personally think football should be played behind closed doors until January with financial support for clubs. I accept that is not going to happen, and the club have to play by the rules laid down to them. The fact is there is very likely to be people in the ground with COVID, there will definitely be an element of fans who do not respect social distancing such is the nature of the clientele unfortunately. What if Covid is still around until say 2022 do we still play behind closed doors? Sorry but that can't happen. Mental health will be huge by then (it already is) and of course clubs won't exist. Cases are increasing in the borough, up 21 new cases from the previous week but what options do we have? If there are no fans or even no football then we will have very few clubs left in the country. I think it's inevitable that a new wave will hit us however it appears (and clearly I'm no expert) that this new wave is either weaker or Europe as a whole are better equipped to deal with, as, for the moment, the deaths are a lot lower. Let's hope it stays that way. Whatever happens we have to try and get back to the new normal and live life while being sensible. |
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trev
1st team skipper
In Matt We Trust
Posts: 2,477 
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Post by trev on Aug 28, 2020 14:16:18 GMT
The subject of face coverings is clearly a thorny issue and one which has prompted divergent views.
My personal view is that as face coverings in outdoor settings are not currently mandatory, it's a matter of personal choice as to whether people wear them. On the one hand, those who exercise their freedom of choice not to wear masks should have their choice respected. On the other hand, those who decide to err on the side of caution and wear one, even though they are not required to do so, deserve equal respect.
Although there is some weight to the proposition that no club should be required to go above and beyond what is mandatory, ultimately that decision is down to to each club's individual discretion. In any event, it goes without saying that all fans should be expected to comply with the mandatory social distancing rules, and if they are requested to adhere to those rules then they should do so with good grace and not give our stewards/volunteers any grief. A failure to do so can have adverse knock-on effects. It may result in other fans deciding it's too risky to attend games, and in a worst case scenario it could result in sanctions against the club.
It's clear that most of us on this thread would rather not wear masks during matches. I am one of those people. I do however recognise that those of us who have lost loved ones, who are shielding close relatives, who have underlying health conditions, or simply be apprehensive about being in an environment with hundreds of others, may feel reluctant to attend games in the current climate, especially as new coronavirus cases are on the rise [now at their highest level since June].
With this in mind, I would suggest that the club considers having an area of the ground set aside for those who, for whatever reason, want to wear a mask and not be in an area surrounded by people without masks. As we are not currently in a position to accommodate away supporters, perhaps such an area could be allocated to the away section?
If this is practicable, it would enable the club to accommodate the wishes of all our supporters and ensure everyone has an enjoyable match experience.
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Post by mitcham_badlander on Aug 28, 2020 17:04:07 GMT
To echo Trev's comment above, one of my interests is musical in nature and we discussed masks at a recent meeting before restarting. We have two places where we play, a little distance apart from one another, and agreed that one place would be "no masks" and the other "all masks", and our members could decide individually which one they want to attend, i.e. one or the other or both.
Would it be possible to designate certain terraces/ends or parts of the ground as "masked" and others "unmasked" when spectating, or does there have to be a consistent rule across the whole ground?
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Post by davef on Aug 28, 2020 18:51:56 GMT
We are more than happy to explore that suggestion. But what we have learnt so far is that for every good idea it creates something problematical elsewhere. Catch-22 had nothing on all this. Currently grappling with how to create a red zone that only players and officials can enter without it stopping something else from happening.
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kpinwp
1st team Player
Posts: 1,248
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Post by kpinwp on Aug 28, 2020 19:19:58 GMT
We are more than happy to explore that suggestion. But what we have learnt so far is that for every good idea it creates something problematical elsewhere. Catch-22 had nothing on all this. Currently grappling with how to create a red zone that only players and officials can enter without it stopping something else from happening. Davef, at least you know that the vast majority of us rest assured that you will come to the correct conclusions and make at the right decisions. So, let's just hope that you do!  Get paid much for this?! |
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