For anyone who'd still question why we need a Pride group

[sallycat]

The more we talk about this, the less accepted and normal this type of abuse will be. The more visible and normalised LGBT people become within the football community, the less accepted and normal this type of abuse will be.

Let's all stand together and help make the world a better place

[scorpioeyes]

Why does anyone need to display or mention their sexuality when they're a sportsperson? It should be totally irrelevant. My sexuality is my own business and that should be the case with everyone, surely?

[sallycat]

I just explained why. Because of what happens if we don't talk about it. But actually, that is not what they're doing at all so your question isn't really relevant. They are not necessarily even talking about or "displaying" (whatever that means) their own sexuality. They're just giving their support to people who are subjected to abuse and discrimination because of their own sexuality or identity.

The footballers in question aren't necessarily part of the LGBT community themselves, but they still receive homophobic abuse from people who think saying someone is gay etc is an insult. If we don't challenge that attitude, actively show we are proud of who we are and that our sexuality is nothing to be ashamed of then that will never change.

These footballers often act as role models and it's right and proper for them to speak up about the abuse and discrimination they witness. Without the loud voices speaking up on behalf of those that are quieter or get smothered, cultural change simply doesn't happen.

[medibot]

If you don't think there is a gay male footballer (I say male because sexuality isn't as much of an issue in the women's game, Wales' finest player, Jess Fishlock is openly gay, for example) who would in any other profession be openly gay that is not bothering to come out to avoid the hassle of being the "first" then you would be very naive.

Way before the pride group at Sutton got going there were people bravely coming out to friends at the club and being genuinely concerned about it not going down well if it went public and the blanket reaction of acceptance and tolerance from everyone has made me very proud of our support.

From shouting down homophobic comments on the terraces at 17 to feeling like everybody belongs at 34 is as much a sign of progress as the team going from the Ryman Premier to the Football League.

[sallycat]

It absolutely is. Although I have still heard some stuff shouted from the terraces in recent years that might make someone feel uncomfortable coming out. Mostly it comes more from ignorance than outright malice, but that's if anything even more of a reason to call it out. People have a responsibility to learn.

I think this is a really good time to start our Pride group despite feeling we've made so much progress. There will probably be a lot of new fans joining us and we need to send a clear message about what sort of club we are and what we expect from our fans.

[paz]

At the higher end of the scale within the football industry, the reason gay footballers might not come out might well be about cash. We see no issue with pop stars, actors or other sports people coming out. When you look at boxing or Football then it has a more masculine image and sponsors pay millions based on a certain audience. Therefor, in some cases its just "good buisness" to just keep it on the low until you have made their cash. Its not a case of homophobia but just markets. With regards to TV presentation it can work the otherway around where its fashionable to be gay. It might not be a favourable situation but thats marketing for you..

But I essentially agree with "scorpioeyes", at the end of the day sexuality as a whole is a personal and private matter for all, so I dont see why it has to be much of an issue to start with. Lets say for example If a popular Sutton player came out as gay, other than those who are close to him or Family members, who cares? What has it got to do with the club or fans? As long as he scores goals and respects the club I could not care about his sexual relationships.

Lastly, While as a Nation we are extremely strict on intolerance towards minorites like this, we can also be very proud of how tollorent the UK is compared to so many other places. which is why so many homosexuals (one being a good friend of mine) flee other nations and come to live here.

[sallycat]

I keep seeing this same point made that sexuality is/should be a private matter and people don't see why we should have to make a thing of it.

I don't blame those people for missing the point, because you've never experienced homophobic abuse.

But yeah. You are missing the point, even if that's not necessarily through any fault of your own.

On the surface, I totally agree. We shouldn't have to make a thing of it. Because being trans or bi or gay or whatever should just be...well, normal.

BUT

It's not LGBT people making a public issue out of a private matter. The people who make it into a thing are the people who abuse, bully, hurt and discriminate against the LGBT community because they've guessed or found out about those people's sexual orientation or identity. It would be great if we COULD all just live our lives normally and not have to highlight sexuality as part of our identity. We will, I'm sure, get there one day. But sadly we are not there yet and in order to get there I'm afraid we first have to pass through this stage of actively looking out for those who experience discrimination, speaking up against it and raising awareness about it, until society treats those people as equals. We may be better off than other parts of the world but that does not mean we are good enough. And if we're not part of the LGBT community ourselves it's not for us to say that we've made enough progress. We can't judge something we don't have experience of.

[os]

I don't know if you are aware of this story from Sheppey United's Jahmal Howlett-Mundle?

He came out as Bisexual last week and today suffered abuse during their FA Cup preliminary round match with Tower Hamlets FC.

www.kentonline.co.uk/sheerness/news/kent-footballer-suffers-homophobic-abuse-after-coming-out-251971/

Whilst I understand exactly where you are coming from, I can see a problem emerging from the deliberate trolling side of things rather than in this case homophobia, and just as often racist comments, tweets etc.

I don't know how you actually stop someone from saying something when they are actually saying it because they are not suppose to say it, not necessarily because they really believe it? I don't know how society gets around that problem especially in these days of social media where a 'no one' can get him/herself noticed by simply stating something homophobic or racist. I can think of people I know of race and different sexuality that would quite happily say something from the behind the goal if they thought it would put the keeper off or stop a goal (of the same race etc).

It does not make it right, but I think we are seeing a rise in that type of abuse, it may need tackling in a different way?

[sallycat]

I don't think anyone has answers to all those questions. All I know is that you can't change the status quo by doing nothing.

[bailo]

Aug 8, 2021 7:44:05 GMT sallycat said:

All I know is that you can't change the status quo by doing nothing.

Well, this is certainly true. 

I don't have any particular skin in this game (other than, hopefully, being a reasonably tolerant chap), so I look at it in a simple (perhaps too simplistic?) way - a bit like the rainbow flags in the windows of pubs/hostels/venues in the 90s, I see the SU Pride movement as shining a light that our club is a 'safe haven' where you will be accepted, without question, whoever you are*. Coming to GGL should be an experience for all to enjoy, without even the faintest consideration that one might be subjected to (directly or, for example, through comments to players, indirectly) racist, sexist, homophobic, etc abuse. Yes, this does have to be 'displayed' as, regrettably, there are too many places in our society where such acceptance isn't the norm. But, for me, that's all it is. Come one, come all*.


*well, maybe not neo-Nazis, but you catch my drift