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Post by Del on Mar 27, 2022 13:23:51 GMT
For supporters who have never been to Wembley before this will have more importance. For league 1 & league 2 clubs it really is the only chance of playing in a Cup final at Wembley. I'm lucky i have seen Sutton play at Wembley twice before and it should have been three times but a holiday got in the way.
Rather a lot more prize money for this competition than the SSC yet before we were a Football league club i wouldn't have taken a second glance at results or the final of this trophy. I suggested to a few Premier League supporters that they could take a look at the final on the telly but they just laughed.
For us as a team ,a club and supporters it is great to get there but lets just not assume that by missing out on promotion we can establish ourselves as a league 2 club. Sadly football doesn't work like that. You have to ride the crest of the wave and continue the momentum.
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Post by paz on Mar 27, 2022 14:00:22 GMT
Before yesterday's game I would have said no and pointed to our ridiculous injury list. But yesterday we had bodies back and a penalty box full of players who allowed them space to score on two occasions. This to me looked like players were hesitant about getting too stuck in (not as much second half).
I think it's quite hard to gauge what is a priority. If we view Sutton United, a long time non-league outfit that has managed to break into the league, then the Wembley final is our biggest moment. If we are now a league side with the ambition to get into league one, then I would have thought the final takes second priority and getting into the playoffs is more important.
I am beginning to feel that the club's view is that next Sunday is the pinnacle of this season having already secured our status here. And the fact that it's still possible for us to go up can also bring more strain on the club's resources and regulatory qualifications, so perhaps it is not viewed as something the club must do in order to have a great season and they will take or leave it..
If we win next week then we have won the biggest trophy in our history and can then try and take that momentum into a playoff push which the team should be able to fight for pressure-free.
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Post by shaneaib on Mar 27, 2022 14:18:56 GMT
This from garethl is kind of where I am. Over the years I've been more league over Cup. As is said below either outcome "would be superb'. I am looking forward to next week at Wembley, it will be a great occasion, brilliant for Bruce and so many others who have worked hard over the years. All in all its been a great season and to still be in the mix during the business end is a great achievement. I’d agree promotion over final win in preference for me but either would be superb. I can’t imagine the original poster was anything but tongue in cheek comparing the Pizza Cup to the SSC!! As much as I don’t like the format it’s in the main a senior, national, professional league competition (albeit ‘complimented’ with some irrelevant non teams through bribery). I think for me with Wembley getting there is more important than winning there (on this occasion). We are big underdogs and I’m going with little expectation in terms of walking away with the trophy. Seeing the numbers going into watch in the name of Sutton will actually be an incredible moment on its own. The cup run has likely contributed to our injury problems given the extra games. I still think we can turn the tide in the league and come again as we (injury permitting) are getting back to full strength or close to. |
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Post by baboonfish on Mar 27, 2022 15:39:49 GMT
Yes one always wants ones team to win, and football supporters are generally an over optimistic bunch. But I feel there's some nievete surrounding our ability to compete in league one and how far behind we are off the field. Yes you can point to similar fears with the last two promotions, but when we got promoted to the national we were far better prepared than in 99 (and who can blame supporters for their fears after that). It's clear now the difference between league 2 and national is slim, due to the difficulty of promotion and relegation. No team has ever gone straight back down either.
But league one is a different beast. It's very difficult for teams to compete these days higher up the pyramid with the old Cambridge / Wimbledon kind of philosophy. Direct football is far less effective as you rise. We'd most likely go up with the majority of the same squad and we'd almost certainly come straight down, and quite possibly weakened financially and with the morale of a losing team.
Technically, the Wigan players were on another planet. We'll see it again next week, and yes we can compete in a one off game but the passing and touch of players in league 1 is far more advanced than league 2.
For me it comes down to building and improving the infrastructure, slowly pulling in more supporters and being able to sustain a bigger, more able squad each season. Promotion is not desirable until then,in my book.
It may only take the club 2 or 3 seasons to get to that position, or we could be in this league for decades (Rochdale I think did more than 20 seasons, forest green were in the national for 19 or something). I'd rather have 20 seasons in L2 than 1 in L1 and end up back in the national a few years later, from where it's an immense challenge to get promoted. Wrexham are what, 7 seasons in now? 8?
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Post by davef on Mar 27, 2022 15:43:10 GMT
17 seasons ! Time flies, Baboonfish.
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Post by terrier on Mar 27, 2022 16:36:49 GMT
The team (and club) is having a great season, and it will be rightfully praised for what it has done, irrespective of what happens here on in till the end of the season. Let us not kid ourselves though, the club infrastructure off the pitch is still largely, if not entirely, “non-league”. GGL is far and away the worst ground in the EFL, and the club trains on pitches owned by a school. If anyone had taken a stroll round Vale Park yesterday they’d have surely been impressed by the fantastic quality of the training pitches behind the home end stand.
Beware the second season syndrome. If Sutton don’t get promoted, they’ll no longer not be known to the other clubs, GGL will no longer be new to them. The club has taken giant strides last season and this, but it needs to consolidate, strengthening on and off the pitch and getting itself established in the EFL. I think L2 is where SU need to be for a few seasons yet and I don’t think that is showing lack of ambition. I’d say it’s showing realism, and isn’t that what the management of this club have almost always shown before?
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Post by garethl on Mar 27, 2022 16:39:17 GMT
But league one is a different beast. It's very difficult for teams to compete these days higher up the pyramid with the old Cambridge / Wimbledon kind of philosophy. Direct football is far less effective as you rise. We'd most likely go up with the majority of the same squad and we'd almost certainly come straight down, and quite possibly weakened financially and with the morale of a losing team. Technically, the Wigan players were on another planet. We'll see it again next week, and yes we can compete in a one off game but the passing and touch of players in league 1 is far more advanced than league 2. From afar League One looks a very ‘2 division’ league. The top half decent, the bottom not much different to league 2. We’d have a good scrap having a go at staying up imo. Wimbledon have barely won a point for months and still have a chance of staying up. I find it odd you think Wigan were on another planet when we knocked them out and they hardly caused a whole host of problems for our defence. We’ve obviously beaten a first team squad of Portsmouth and Wimbledon this season, competed well with Cardiff of the Championship and even with bare bones generally aren’t beaten too convincingly in League 2 against the better sides. That’s a lot of one offs. Think you do us a disservice tbh. As to philosophy maybe if it’s gone out of fashion it’s a reason why it’s so effective now? We’re not an easy game for anyone. |
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markf
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Post by markf on Mar 27, 2022 18:47:58 GMT
This argument about the PJT or the league is amusing to me.
Was Wembley on any fan's agenda last August? Was challenging for the play offs? I doubt even the most optimistic would have expected either let a lone both.
Whatever happens this season has been incredible and I really don't see the point of the stand off.
As for the PJT being the equivalent of the SSC, I am afraid that is a bit off the mark.
I love the SSC, it was the first trophy I saw Sutton win back in May 1970 but that was at Fetcham Grove not Wembley!
In recent seasons U's have deployed academy players in the SSC, often the whole side on other occasions mix of senior and youth. The PJT has seen Matt utilise the senior squad.
There is no comparison and to suggest so detracts from the club's achievement in reaching the final.
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Post by garethl on Mar 27, 2022 18:53:42 GMT
It’s hardly a stand off. People are just discussing something topical. I think everyone is well happy with the way the season has gone no matter what happens from here. If it ends in trophy or promotion that is way way beyond expectations, pretty sure everyone appreciates that.
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markf
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Post by markf on Mar 27, 2022 19:05:56 GMT
I meant the stand off between the play off chase and the pjt not people posting their views!! Jeez.
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Post by Andy K on Mar 27, 2022 19:10:22 GMT
It’s hardly a stand off. People are just discussing something topical. I think everyone is well happy with the way the season has gone no matter what happens from here. If it ends in trophy or promotion that is way way beyond expectations, pretty sure everyone appreciates that. I'm not so sure. There are some mutterings from supporters on various social media channels that "we're underperformed" and "we're throwing the season away". I expect those supporters we're not anywhere to be seen between 2005 and 2010 at very least. I think even if we ended up in 22nd (which I think could even be mathematically impossible by now) I'd say that was a big achievement with the resources we have. I hope I'm in the majority there! |
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Post by garethl on Mar 27, 2022 19:15:11 GMT
I meant the stand off between the play off chase and the pjt not people posting their views!! Jeez. Fair enough but I think it’s interesting to hear differing views on league vs Wembley game and the like. Pointless, maybe. But isn’t everything on here in the grand scheme??! |
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Post by garethl on Mar 27, 2022 19:17:51 GMT
It’s hardly a stand off. People are just discussing something topical. I think everyone is well happy with the way the season has gone no matter what happens from here. If it ends in trophy or promotion that is way way beyond expectations, pretty sure everyone appreciates that. I'm not so sure. There are some mutterings from supporters on various social media channels that "we're underperformed" and "we're throwing the season away". I expect those supporters we're not anywhere to be seen between 2005 and 2010 at very least. I think even if we ended up in 22nd (which I think could even be mathematically impossible by now) I'd say that was a big achievement with the resources we have. I hope I'm in the majority there! I don’t really see any of that but yeah am sure there are a few out there lacking an appreciation of where we’re at and where we’ve come from. Our home crowds have trebled/quadrupled over the last few years. No doubt we’ll have a fair few who have only known winning and success. I think it’s fair to say that doesn’t apply to (m)any that have found themselves posting on here? |
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markf
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Post by markf on Mar 27, 2022 19:20:50 GMT
I didn't say it was pointless either, I said l didn't see the point. Doesn't mean it's pointless.
Think a bit more on this in terms of non league v league perhaps the PJT is more like the FA Vase with the Trophy being the FA Cup?
Whatever, it is, domestically, the biggest cup final the club will have played in.
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Post by garethl on Mar 27, 2022 19:51:48 GMT
Whatever, it is, domestically, the biggest cup final the club will have played in. I agree. Is your use of domestically suggesting you would say the Anglo Italian trumps it? |
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