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Post by garethl on Dec 30, 2014 9:53:58 GMT
Ok so that isn't meant to say cow!! Edit function not working for me and damn predictive text on phone!!
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oohaah
Top Performer
Posts: 3,074
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Post by oohaah on Dec 30, 2014 10:02:28 GMT
That's it in black and white garethl... A very Friesian response.
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Post by sallycat on Dec 30, 2014 10:55:36 GMT
Medibot said he's arguing his right to have games officiated by someone competent. Well, ok. I'd say that's an expectation rather than a right, but let's not split hairs because this is indeed the crux of the problem for most of us isn't it - myself included.
But you don't fight for that by abusing the ones you do have. That could just push them away to make way for even worse ones.
If you took buses a lot and noticed that the drivers were all incompetent, or that all the cashiers at your local supermarket did their jobs really badly, and if you had enough common sense, you wouldn't yell c*** and w***** at each one of them as they tried, badly, to do that job. You'd think that there was either something wrong with the recruitment process, or that these chaps were really ineptly coached to do their jobs. I would take it up at a higher level as that would be much more likely to be effective.
But in this case, it isn't as simple as that because the problem isn't with organisations (ie football clubs) that we can threaten to harm by taking our custom away. So we feel powerless to change anything and take our frustrations out on the officials. It's not pleasant but it is a human reaction. Nobody's asking you to stop it, just to try and rephrase your outbursts of temper.
After all, this sort of thing is against the ground regulations. It's hard to justify berating someone for failing to follow one set of regulations whilst breaking another yourself.
It may historically be a part of football, but so is racism. People originally reacted in similar ways to the idea of changing that too, but we have come quite a long way.
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Post by Andy K on Dec 30, 2014 11:11:02 GMT
Lets be honest - the arguments cover the ref. But I've heard similar abuse to opposing players, opposing supporters and even our own fans. I can stretch a level of understanding for the first two, but the last one I can't especially when "We're in it together".
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Post by amberchoc on Dec 30, 2014 12:21:27 GMT
Just watched the highlights. The alleged handball incident that caused most of the....let's say "contention" behind the goal is 4:25 in. The defender initially had his arms deliberately held behind his back (as is the standard defensive practice these days), but then, when the ball started flying towards him, his natural reaction was to bring his arms out and turn his back (in self-preservation more than anything). Let's face it, if that had been one of our players and the ref had given a penalty, we'd have been claiming it was accidental and cursing that heartless bitch, Dame Fortune!
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Post by os on Dec 30, 2014 19:16:03 GMT
I am still not entirely sure what is being seen as abuse? Is it swearing at officials/Players or simply making your feelings known? Most on here are passionate about their team/club and I am no different, and in truth I admit to things I maybe should not have said over the years. However nowadays I am a lot calmer and try not to launch a foul mouthed tirade, and also know that the club can get in trouble for it if the ref chooses to put it in his report.
With that said I am a human being who does care passionately about our fortunes. We have suffered some really bad decisions going right back to the playoff against Dover, not only that but we have been the victims of a number of somewhat dubious incidents that could be called cheating. We lost one player permanently to a red card challenge which didn't even get a card and with that our hopes of promotion went up the tubes. We didn't only lose Bedsente 'wrongly' at Hemel but we also lost money the club vitally needs. We lost against Bath to a penalty which should never have been given, and a red card which should never of been given. What I am saying its not simply losing a match or the odd bad decision which evens itself out, these are game changers which have cost us dear both on and off the pitch.
That's why I get upset, and believe I can damn well have a go at those responsible (without foul language). I don't believe premiership officials are anywhere near as bad as the ones we have been putting up with, and I don't believe any of the last 3 penalties given against us would have been so by a prem ref.
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markf
Top Performer
Posts: 3,191
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Post by markf on Dec 30, 2014 19:24:17 GMT
Abuse does not have to include the use of foul language and actually can be more effective in hitting the spot without it. Unfortunately, the passions (red mist) take over and well....
The cumulative effect on some very very poor decisions against us this season I suspect has taken some of us beyond control at times. No excuse mind.
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Post by northernmonkey on Dec 30, 2014 19:29:23 GMT
I would very simply challenge those who know they are going to far to show your aggression in a more useful way. If you shout or challenge the referee's decision without personal insults or constant swearing I am certain it is likely to be more effective.
In addition, it reflects badly on everyone.
Easy to fix, let's give it a conscious effort!
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bh
1st team Player
Come on you Us
Posts: 1,573
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Post by bh on Dec 30, 2014 19:51:21 GMT
Could not these match videos be sent to the match officials as a learning aid. Let them see their errors, and hope the next club they officiate would benefit. Doesn't help us but maybe the future of the game.
As for the swearing, I admit I am as guilty as the next supporter. I used to stand with a family with young children, and inwardly cursed myself if the children were in earshot. I now stand with a lady, and still try to (sometimes I can't) control my language. I now call an offending official, in my eyes, a Muppet, while a insult to Kermit and his pals at least that isn't swearing!
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Post by os on Dec 30, 2014 19:59:31 GMT
Could not these match videos be sent to the match officials as a learning aid. Let them see their errors, and hope the next club they officiate would benefit. Doesn't help us but maybe the future of the game. As for the swearing, I admit I am as guilty as the next supporter. I used to stand with a family with young children, and inwardly cursed myself if the children were in earshot. I now stand with a lady, and still try to (sometimes I can't) control my language. I now call an offending official, in my eyes, a Muppet, while a insult to Kermit and his pals at least that isn't swearing! They can have the video if they request it, I know the ref who did that certain WSM match known for its woeful timewasting did ask for a copy to be sent to him. When you get this sort of this with everyone shouting 10 yards to the ref, and him deliberately ignoring it, you know a video probably wouldn't help much: FREE KICK TO U's defender, how many yards away?
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foxtrot
Youth Team Player
Red Oxide rules
Posts: 193
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Post by foxtrot on Dec 30, 2014 20:19:28 GMT
I agree with what Sallycat is saying but I would take it slightly further . I think it actually harms our chances of getting a decision. There are loads of 50/50 decisions in a game. Each one will be deemed to be wrong by the penalised team. If I was a referee (and thank goodness, for all involved , I'm not , and I'd made a couple of bad decisions, if I was subjected to that level of abuse, the next 50/50 decision would not be going the way of the abusive supporters' team. Having said that, I reserve the right to point out to the ref, if I think he has made a wrong decision, just without the personal abuse. Has the standard of refereeing got worse? We are so conditioned to multi angled slo mo replays That we expect the referee to be perfect. Every one makes mistakes during the game. I don't recall hearing anyone abuse Charlie Clough when he missed that sitter (under their breath maybe ) We've had 2 red cards rescinded, unprecedented, I'm told. Does anyone think they would have been rescinded without the SUFCTV evidence? (well done guys , by the way). Evidence that would not have been available 2 or 3 year ago.
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Post by Jared on Dec 30, 2014 21:18:39 GMT
So are you suggesting he led his son to the Family Stand? What a good idea. The volume with which the c bomb is dropped at GGL, you can hear it in the children's playground outside the ground, let alone the family stand. I also find the volume and constant use of the word c*rshalton to be both unnecessary and offensive, children shouldn't be subject to that word. Oh, different c word?
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Post by hobart on Dec 31, 2014 2:51:50 GMT
First time poster here all the way from Tasmania. My mates and I attended Bromley v Sutton a few weeks ago. A great game of non-league football despite the 1-2 loss. We all noted a couple of things:
1. Sutton are a fine team who do not deserve to be anywhere near the relegation zone this season. They have had a run of bad luck for sure.
2. Some Sutton fans are downright ugly. Seriously guys - it was very noticeable how at the slightest contentious decision by the referee a few loudmouths went right off every time. Ironically, the referee's performance that day was excellent by any standard. It's sad to see a great club partly infected with a culture of childish, hysterical foul-mouthed abuse being thrown at officials. I agree with earlier posters - it can and should change.
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Post by northernmonkey on Dec 31, 2014 6:41:03 GMT
The volume with which the c bomb is dropped at GGL, you can hear it in the children's playground outside the ground, let alone the family stand. I also find the volume and constant use of the word c*rshalton to be both unnecessary and offensive, children shouldn't be subject to that word. Oh, different c word? Both are distressing and should clearly be avoided.
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Post by sallycat on Dec 31, 2014 12:15:16 GMT
OS, the difference between venting your frustration and being abusive can be as simple as whether you're insulting a person or just criticising their behaviour. If I say you're a stupid idiot then I'm being abusive but if I tell you you've done a very stupid thing then I'm not. Rude maybe, but it isn't personal abuse.
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