Lest We Forget

[wellie]

The club have forgoten!In todays prog 5 SUFC players who gave their lives in WW1 were remembered.It was 6!Once again Samuel George Clover was missing from the the list.I gave details of Sam to the club over 18 months ago but still no recognition.I hope the attatched will remember Sam as SUFC player.The reason i am making this post that Sam was my Grandmas first husband and i was given his war medals and his SUFC medal from 1903/04 by his daughter Eva(my Mums half sister)before she passed away.I am sad to say i am very very upset with the club on this aniversary weekend of the end of WW1.

[VCLXI]

Sorry to hear that. He was remembered today after the impeccable silence from both sides.

[wellie]

If Sam was remembered after the silence i didnt hear anything.I really want to know why his name wasnt on the memorial inside the programme.Perhaps someone from the club can explain.No excuses please just the reason.The photo is from the 1948 club handbook and Sam Clover is the guy in the front roww holding the ball!

[markf]

I have had a look at the records Wellie and although missing a handful of match line ups for the 1913/14 season - the last one we played before war broke out - Sam wasn't in the first team (although I accept he could have been in the reserves). As it was ten years on from the photo, it is possible he wasn't a playing member as players often continued their club membership in those days even if they no longer played. Perhaps that is why his name doesn't appear in the 75th handbook? There is no one about who can answer that question.

I did see his name in an email sent around by a chap who had done some research and his name was on the list which was the one that appeared in the 75th Anniversary handbook plus Sam. I assume that the prog editor didn't see that email and went with what I gave from the handbook, which was all I knew of officially at the time I was asked.

As for him being remembered in the silence I think the poster was alluding to a generic memory of all those who had fallen not just those who had played for SUFC.

Certainly, there was no hidden agenda with regards to his name being omitted. It seems a lack of communication and full knowledge is the reason.

[wellie]

Thanks Mark.I believe Sam was playing in the early 1900s as i have his Surrey Junior League runners up medal from the 1902/03 season given to me by his daughter before she passed away.I did not for one minute think there was a hidden agenda however i was upset he had not been mentioned (not for the first time)suprising as the obituary in the Sutton and Cheam Advertiser says he was a well known Sutton United footballer.I have had an email from Dave F explaining what had caused the ommision.Once again thanks for your research. Wellie

[maw]

I have completed some research into the lives of those members of SUFC who lost their lives as a result of the world wars (as follows).

The official SUFC Roll of Honour does not include Clover and Collins (WW1) and Sharp (WW2).

1914 - 1918
SAMUEL GEORGE CLOVER - 1917, Belgium, died of wounds as POW, age 37
ROBERT HENRY COLLINS - 1919, UK, died of gas poisoning, age 37
ALBERT EDWARD SHRUBSOLE - 1917, France, died of wounds, age 32
WILLIAM HENRY SHRUBSOLE - 1917, Germany, died of wounds as POW, age 32
CALEB BROWN SMITH - 1917, France, killed in action, age 35
S. TRENDALL - information not found
HENRY ARTHUR WESTON - 1916, France, died of wounds, age 26

1939 - 1945
LESLIE LEONARD ALLBUTT - 1945, Holland, died of wounds, age 20
JOHN GREENSLADE - 1940, UK, died of wounds (bomb explosion), age 43
JAMES KELLY - 1944, UK, killed (V1 rocket explosion), age 58
JOSEPH HARRY PETTITT, 1944, Holland, killed in action, age 37
JOHN LESLIE RAWSON, 1942, Singapore, died at sea as escaping POW, age 25
ALFRED PERCY REEVE, 1943, Atlantic, killed in action, age 27
RONALD FREDERICK CHARLES SHARP, 1945, Italy, killed in flying collision, age 22
DAVID MILLIS WESLEY, 1941, Canada, killed in flying accident, age 27

[maw]

Samuel George CLOVER

1880 - 1917

Samuel George Clover was born in Colchester, Essex in 1880. He married Eva Emma Stevens in Sutton, Surrey in 1909.

At the beginning of the war he was residing at 12, Glebe Road, Sutton and was employed as a labourer and handyman.

He attested into the army at Sutton in December 1915 and was initially posted to the 24th Middlesex Regiment as Private 2369. He was serving as Private G/18976 with the 6th East Kent Regiment when he was wounded and captured by the Germans at Monchy-le-Preux, France on 3rd May 1917 during the Third Battle of the Scarpe (part of the Battle of Arras). He died as a prisoner of war at Mons, Belgium on 11th June 1917 and was buried by the Germans at Mons Communal Cemetery.

He is also commemorated on the Sutton War Memorial.

Sam played as a centre-half and won a Surrey Junior League Runners-Up Medal for the season 1902-03.

[SuttonUnitedFCtv]

Nov 13, 2018 15:08:57 GMT maw said:

I have completed some research into the lives of those members of SUFC who lost their lives as a result of the world wars (as follows).

The official SUFC Roll of Honour does not include Clover and Collins (WW1) and Sharp (WW2).

1914 - 1918
SAMUEL GEORGE CLOVER - 1917, Belgium, died of wounds as POW, age 37
ROBERT HENRY COLLINS - 1919, UK, died of gas poisoning, age 37
ALBERT EDWARD SHRUBSOLE - 1917, France, died of wounds, age 32
WILLIAM HENRY SHRUBSOLE - 1917, Germany, died of wounds as POW, age 32
CALEB BROWN SMITH - 1917, France, killed in action, age 35
S. TRENDALL - information not found
HENRY ARTHUR WESTON - 1916, France, died of wounds, age 26

1939 - 1945
LESLIE LEONARD ALLBUTT - 1945, Holland, died of wounds, age 20
JOHN GREENSLADE - 1940, UK, died of wounds (bomb explosion), age 43
JAMES KELLY - 1944, UK, killed (V1 rocket explosion), age 58
JOSEPH HARRY PETTITT, 1944, Holland, killed in action, age 37
JOHN LESLIE RAWSON, 1942, Singapore, died at sea as escaping POW, age 25
ALFRED PERCY REEVE, 1943, Atlantic, killed in action, age 27
RONALD FREDERICK CHARLES SHARP, 1945, Italy, killed in flying collision, age 22
DAVID MILLIS WESLEY, 1941, Canada, killed in flying accident, age 27

We have added that list to the details below the match highlights on YouTube published on 11/11/18 (Slough), they will stay there now for as long as YouTube exists.

Attachments:

[wellie]

Thanks MAW for the research.12 Glebe Road where Sam lived is now called Vicarage Road and is the house where i was raised and was our family home until the 1990s.Out of interest do you know why Clover,Collins and Sharp are not on the club Roll of Honor?Researching Sam has been difficult for me as i found his WW1 medals and his Gravestone had been (due to an Army clerical error at the time )engraved GLOVER not CLOVER but after lengthy correspondence with the CWGC and providing documents and obituaries they found where the error had happened and they re engraved the headstone and amended their records.Many thanks Wellie.

[maw]

With so many individuals to deal with, it was quite common for authorities to omit names from war memorials and rolls of honour.

Robert Collins was probably not included in the SUFC Roll of Honour because he died after the Armistice. He died from the effects of gas poisoning at Charing Cross Military Hospital, London on 28th May 1919 and is commemorated on the Carshalton War Memorial. He played for both Carshalton Athletic and Sutton United.

Ronald (Ronnie) Sharp died on 4th April 1945 when his Liberator bomber collided with another and crashed at Celone, Italy. All the crew members were lost and were buried alongside each other at Bari War Cemetery. As a boy, he played football in Collingwood Park and eventually played for Sutton United FC.

[Del]

Nov 14, 2018 18:33:10 GMT maw said:

With so many individuals to deal with, it was quite common for authorities to omit names from war memorials and rolls of honour.

Robert Collins was probably not included in the SUFC Roll of Honour because he died after the Armistice. He died from the effects of gas poisoning at Charing Cross Military Hospital, London on 28th May 1919 and is commemorated on the Carshalton War Memorial. He played for both Carshalton Athletic and Sutton United.

Ronald (Ronnie) Sharp died on 4th April 1945 when his Liberator bomber collided with another and crashed at Celone, Italy. All the crew members were lost and were buried alongside each other at Bari War Cemetery. As a boy, he played football in Collingwood Park and eventually played for Sutton United FC.

Fantastic research MAW. Where are you obtaining all this detailed information ?

[maw]

My sources include (in addition to the official Sutton United FC Roll of Honour as a starting point):

Birth / Marriage / Death index references and certificates
Census pages
1939 Identity Register
Electoral Registers
The Commonwealth War Graves Commission Debt of Honour Register
Soldiers Died in the Great War 1914-1919
POW records of the International Red Cross
Medal index cards
Medal rolls
War service / pension records
War diaries
Register of Deceased Soldiers' Effects
Published materials
Newspapers
Obituaries
Personal accounts / family information

MAW