SUFCtv: INTERVIEW Paul Doswell U's 0 Braintree 3

[halftimet]

I think it is very clear we all have our opinions but if we all watch the same matches we hopefully come up with a similar opinion. What is clear is that we need to spend the rest of the season scouting the leagues for players and by that I mean watching the. Over a number of games. On the whole our recruitment has not been good this season. We have released better players than some that are on the pitch at present.

[amberinexile]

Let's take Andy K's points one at a time.

Firstly, I don't wish to gain anything: I do wish to express a valid, observed opinion. I applaud the right of others to disagree. That's what a fans forum is.

It isn't just my opinion there are non triers, it's the management's as well.
'Dos didn't make it abundantly plain where he stands on certain players' Yes, he did. He said 'seven or eight' were the equivalent of non-triers.

'Dos didn't make it abundantly plain where he stands on certain players at all, at best that's an interpretation of what he said'. Sorry, we're dealing in semantics.

Dos DID make it clear where he stands on certain players - he just didn't name them individually. I merely suggested who they MIGHT be based on the evidence. Repeat: why should they be anonymous?
I, like other fans, can take poor players, but ones who don't try as hard as they should?

'Voicing a negative approach'? Please...what could be more negative than 3-0 to Braintree?

I am happy to praise great performances, but claim the right criticise the poor ones, and frankly wonder what you mean by 'self serving'?

[Andy K]

Mar 13, 2019 16:20:39 GMT amberinexile said:

Let's take Andy K's points one at a time.

Firstly, I don't wish to gain anything: I do wish to express a valid, observed opinion. I applaud the right of others to disagree. That's what a fans forum is.

It isn't just my opinion there are non triers, it's the management's as well.
'Dos didn't make it abundantly plain where he stands on certain players' Yes, he did. He said 'seven or eight' were the equivalent of non-triers.

'Dos didn't make it abundantly plain where he stands on certain players at all, at best that's an interpretation of what he said'. Sorry, we're dealing in semantics.

Dos DID make it clear where he stands on certain players - he just didn't name them individually. I merely suggested who they MIGHT be based on the evidence. Repeat: why should they be anonymous?
I, like other fans, can take poor players, but ones who don't try as hard as they should?

'Voicing a negative approach'? Please...what could be more negative than 3-0 to Braintree?

I am happy to praise great performances, but claim the right criticise the poor ones, and frankly wonder what you mean by 'self serving'?

Before I respond, I want to make it clear that I'm not going to comment on who I think should stay or go on a public forum. I don't feel it's appropriate, but I'm not going to judge others if they don't feel the same.

I disagree with your abundantly plain statement. Saying 7 or 8 players were the equivalent of non-triers (and I'm not sure if that was the words he used) isn't abundantly plain. He could mean any combination of the 20 odd squad we've got. And quite frankly in my experience, anyone who goes off to use the semantics argument can't justify their reasoning beyond that and use it as a fall back, so I'll happily ignore that point.

In terms of why they should remain anonymous. Like I opened with, I feel it's not appropriate, but others will feel different. But you do keep going back to the ones you state are not trying hard enough. It's clearly that you think they are not trying hard enough. There may be players who are trying their socks off (and to be fair there were a number of players I felt last night who did try pretty hard) but they are out of form, which happens a lot and are very different things.

What could be more negative than losing 3-0 to Braintree? OK where do I begin? Relegation, going bankrupt, having a key player out for the season with a serious injury, Dos walking away because of a plethora of negative comments from armchair experts. I'd say they're all a lot more negative than losing at home to Braintree. What happened last time we played Braintree at home in the league? They were bottom, we lost and they got relegated. And we lived on to fight another day and got stronger. I feel that seeing a game in isolation is a very dangerous and blinkered view of the club as a whole.

As for the self serving comment. I can't see who will benefit by people saying who they think should stay or go. It's not about giving a negative comment on a poor performance. That's very different to deciding someone's future on the managements behalf which people can do when they vent spleen.

Bottom line is you can say what you want. All I've said to start with is that I won't indulge in that because I feel it would be inappropriate to do so.

Of course if you want to state your opinion, perhaps a better forum for that would be the Monday night Q&A (if you can attend)

[amberinexile]

'Dos walking away because of a plethora of negative comments from armchair experts' - are you serious?
By the way, feel free to add an armchair somewhere warm at GGL on a chilly Tuesday night.
I think Dos is a bit more man than becoming affected by observation, and I started the thread by praising his candour.
But for some reason, Andy, you refuse to go back to source.
Listen again, if you need to, and read between Dos's lines. He, not me, spoke of seven or eight players who hadn't, or recently haven't, 'gone to war'. Forget injury, forget form: he's talking about heart. You can see that, surely?
And if you think I, or any supporter, will effect Dos, Bairdy's and the rest of the management's decisions over future squads, please send a kilo of what you've got, friend.
You add: 'I feel that seeing a game in isolation'...of course I'm seeing it in isolation. It's the thread where the manager, in isolation, is offering his view on a single game, and me in return.
As for presumption, you're saying I'm seeing a game in isolation as a summary of the club?
How do you know?
Where anywhere in any comment today did I say or even imply this? As it goes, I feel it's been a decent season up until the last month.
For what it's worth, I think it's equally dangerous to put words into people's mouths, and that 'seeing a game in isolation is a very dangerous and blinkered view' if referring to what I've said, is just that.
If your referencing something/some other comment: please make clear.
Just one final point: do you ever read other clubs' fans forums?

[sallycat]

I think if Dos thought it was appropriate to name names, he would have done so. But he didn't. Shouldn't that in itself tell us something?

One or two comments wouldn't make anyone walk away from the club, but the proverb "constant dropping wears away a stone" may be appropriate here. As for other clubs' forums, are you saying other fans doing it makes it ok? Because whichever clubs you're referring to, I can pretty much guarantee they've had at least one manager leave since we last did. I'm not saying managers are likely to leave because of what fans say on message boards, but saying it's ok to do something that might piss off the manager because fans of other clubs with a higher managerial turnover do it seems a bit odd.

[amberinexile]

'...but saying it's ok to do something that might piss off the manager because fans of other clubs with a higher managerial turnover do it seems a bit odd' - never said that, not even remotely.
I was suggesting individual players' criticism and praise was a given elsewhere.
Occasionally, it's banal and poor, sometimes enlightening and entertaining.
Crikey! I'm running out of ways of saying Dos didn't name names. I was suggesting a discussion on who had run out of rope in his mind.
By the way this 'pretty much guarantee' bit that fans hounded out other managers?
I can pretty much 'guarantee' that results did.

[sallycat]

"By the way this 'pretty much guarantee' bit that fans hounded out other managers?"

Who said that? Because I explicitly stated that I wasn't saying that.

You, on the other hand, didn't make it at all clear why you were asking Andy if he ever reads other clubs' forums, thus it was open to misinterpretation. Since I do indeed seem to have misinterpreted it, could you explain what you did mean? Maybe you were making a good point that I missed.

[tonyd]

I'm with AndyK in this debate. I think it is never useful to call out players by name on a public forum. At any level confidence plays a big part in a player's preformance and slagging them off in public is no way to build or restore confidence.

[mca]

This feels a bit North Korean to me. The paying public may have as opinion as long as it a positive one. Wouldn't wanna upset the players who haven't scored in 6 of the last 7 games. They're playing crap, I'm sure they know that better than anyone,and dont need fans to tell them,but that doesn't mean fans aren't allowed to let off steam. Maybe it does

[unclescrunky]

Mar 13, 2019 21:16:02 GMT tonyd said:

I'm with AndyK in this debate. I think it is never useful to call out players by name on a public forum. At any level confidence plays a big part in a player's preformance and slagging them off in public is no way to build or restore confidence.

Don't want to assume the role of Moderator - everyone will have their own views and nobody should be put down for rational thought - blatant stupidity or trolling fair enough. I think its fair to say that most agree we have had a torrid time in the last few weeks and from Dos's interview he's aware of the problems. Rather than bicker if you are able (I'm not for the record) attend the Q & A and raise the issues. I would also URGE SUFCTV to record the Q & A as not everyone can be there and to hear third or fourth information on the terrace is not helpful. Read a post elsewhere today where a Supporter brought friends to the game on Tuesday and in his words they won't rush back. Dos probably hit the nail on the head when he said supporters have been spoiled in recent years - but he also alluded to wanting more - we all do but in a sustainable way. Are we ready for L2 - realistically no - could we be in five years who knows? If we have players that pull on that shirt and don't feel pride then leave - as a Sutton fan I won't apologise for that statement.

[medwaysider]

Mar 13, 2019 21:29:20 GMT mca said:

This feels a bit North Korean to me. The paying public may have as opinion as long as it a positive one. Wouldn't wanna upset the players who haven't scored in 6 of the last 7 games. They're playing crap, I'm sure they know that better than anyone,and dont need fans to tell them,but that doesn't mean fans aren't allowed to let off steam. Maybe it does

Not sure I'd go the whole Kim Jung Un hog here and it is easy to get hysterical after a very bad defeat but no one is immune from criticism. I'd also say that any player who is more concerned by what is written on a message board on a (let's be honest) fairly tame forum than improving their own game lacks the psychological strength to succeed, long term. If they're seriously affected by the largely benign criticism on here, it doesn't bode well (not that I'm saying they are, I don't believe that for a moment of the players or Dos)

[Andy K]

Well that escalated quickly.

Just for clarification on the North Korea post and those who liked it. I voiced my opinion that I don't want to indulge in speculation. At no point have I said what others can or can't say. So drop the whole denial of freedom of speech, its wrong and a little sad.

As for my new admirer Mr Exile. You obviously have no intention of listening and go ahead and twist what I'm saying for whatever reason you feel appeals to you. I'm bored of trying to explain something reasonable to someone who is looking for some online fight. Hope you have a nice evening.

[medwaysider]

Andy I wouldn't call that escalating. In fact I'd say that's an example of posts on this forum being blown out of all proportion. I don't agree with all of what you say, nor what Amber Exile says. Nor what pretty much everyone says. But that's the melting pot of public opinion and as SUFC grow as a club, I daresay the broad church of opinions on this board will become wider.

[medwaysider]

Plus......y'know, if you take the North Korean thing literally, that makes you Kim and who wouldn't want the power to drop a nuclear bomb on Eastleigh? (DISCLAIMER: I want to live in a nuclear free world where even Eastleigh is safe)

[os]

Mar 13, 2019 13:25:28 GMT backhome2016 said:

Dos was also honest enough to admit that he and the back room staff are under scrutiny just as much as the players. The way we set up and how the game plan is changed during a match are probably reasons behind recent results as much as the players form - or at least cutting the tactical cloth as regards who is available to pick.

Bruce and Dos have much to ponder on - do we push for promotion in the next few seasons, do we aim to remain as a solid NL club - this will have influence on who we retain and who we try and get in. In some ways this recent blip might just be a blessing in disguise.

I think this is fair post, Dos is not super human, and can only spend the money his budget allows, no matter how good a manager he is there is only so much that can be done with a pot smaller than those around us. Yes the performances recently have been on the poor side, and yes this team can do better. However in the long run it does come down to money, thats why Man City are top of the Premier league and Leyton Orient / Wrexham etc are at the top end of ours.

I agree the board have a lot to ponder about future direction, if a plant out grows its pot you plant it in a bigger one or prune it back. Will the clubs branches now be pruned or will we get that bigger pot? I said in a post last week, our club is at a defining point in its history. In years to come, this club will look back at this era and say it was the foundation period for a club that can challenge for league status or one which sees this era as we do the late 80s.