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Post by sallycat on Sept 21, 2014 19:38:03 GMT
If i want to call somebody out for stealing a living out of something they blatantly couldn't give a f*ck about doing with any degree of competence or desire then I will. I'm not particularly bothered as to whether anybody else shares my opinion on it. I'm voicing my opinion. Yours might be different, that's life. I appreciate not everyone likes it and I know it's not a positive contribution to anything but so what. Not liking it won't stop people from voicing their opinion at a game at the point where it's wound them up the most and yesterday was spectacularly poor from a lot of players and it's going to raise tensions. I completely agree that you have a right to your opinion. I think everyone has a right to their opinion, as long as they deliver it in a respectful manner. I don't want you to think I'm picking on you, because you're my friend, but it just so happens that so far you're the only person who's posted on this thread in support of the abusers and there are one or two points I want to raise. Firstly, how do you know people couldn't give a f**k about their jobs? If they haven't told you that personally then you have no way of knowing how they feel and it's hardly fair to assume they feel a certain way. Remember when the same sort of thing happened at the playoffs and Dos explained that half the players were on painkillers and a hundred other problems and were so gutted because they'd really wanted to win. We have absolutely no right to make assumptions about people's feelings and motivations just because they have an off day at work. If you spent loads of money on a theatre ticket and the actors were crap and ruined the play for you, I don't suppose you'd yell at them that they were f***ing useless tossers. Or maybe you would but I don't see how that would help anyone. I know I've had bad days at work when I've hardly got anything done and felt I haven't done my job properly but if my customers/clients/people who used the service had given me that sort of s*** for having a bad day, I would have quit. Nobody is paid enough to have to deal with abuse as part of their job. No, I don't like seeing people being abused and I don't think I should have to put up with it because adults can't control their tempers. I can't believe people think it's ok to yell abuse at other people just because they're feeling frustrated. I get really fed up and cross when we perform like we did yesterday so I totally understand the frustration but I know that if I couldn't stop behaving like some people did in response then I'd be seeking professional help for my anger issues. Also, I care about those people not just because they are fellow human beings but also because they're part of the football club I love. I've heard plenty of footballers say that the more a crowd shows its frustration, the worse their football will become. It's easy to say that SHOULDN'T happen and that they're paid to do a job but saying what SHOULD happen won't change anything. The fact is that these guys are as human and imperfect as the rest of us and aren't immune to psychological pressures just because they're paid to do something. Like you Nick I'm just voicing my opinion and I accept that yours is different but I really don't like my team being subjected to stuff that's likely to put them off
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Post by Del on Sept 21, 2014 19:57:23 GMT
I don't think i've had cause to abuse any players since Dos got here but would reserve the right to do so if i thought that players were not trying. I don't think that was the case yesterday.We do have players in our squad that are not quite up to the level we require them to be. We don't have unlimited funds like Ebbsfleet and need to operate within our budget but with Jessie out i believe we need a decent striker.
Who was the attacking midfielder/playmaker yesterday? It started off as Wellard and ended as Spillane.Sadly they don't play well together. Binns only showed small glimpses of what he is capable of as he is coming back from injury.Jo Kuffour could run all day but never looked like scoring.His replacement Bignall was no better.I appreciate they haven't played much football lately and they came across a well marshalled defence. i can only hope for better !
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Post by sallycat on Sept 21, 2014 20:25:18 GMT
You'd reserve the right to abuse players if you felt it necessary? What right is that? Since when has anyone had the right to abuse someone else because they're doing badly at work? There are management staff and procedures to go through if employees are underperforming. The team's performance is the manager's responsibility so wouldn't it be a bit more constructive and respectful to take it up with Dos if you felt his players weren't doing their job and if you felt you knew better than he did why that was?
Of course there are some people who wouldn't do that because then they'd have to have a conversation with someone who was able to reply and defend himself. Just saying...
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Post by Duke on Sept 21, 2014 20:33:54 GMT
Does anyone know the story behind our kit on Saturday?
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Post by Del on Sept 21, 2014 20:44:08 GMT
Its all part & parcel of football sallycat and has been since i can remember, whether you like it or not.
Of course no one abuses the ref!!!
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Post by Amber Aleman on Sept 21, 2014 20:51:34 GMT
Does anyone know the story behind our kit on Saturday? I'd be intrigued to know. Did somebody forget to wash the amber shirts? It seems trivial, but maybe playing in the 'wrong' kit had a negative impact on the players' performance yesterday. Or maybe confidence took a dent when they realised how depleted the squad was. Whatever the explanation, we know that every season contains a few poor performances, just as it contains a few stonking ones. Yesterday's was one of the bad ones. The important thing is to bounce back. Despite the defeat, Sutton are only five points behind leaders Boreham Wood (with a game in hand) and just two behind Ebbsfleet in fifth. We've played five of the seven teams above us - and beaten three of them. So there's good reason to be positive, and from what I've seen so far we don't need to fear anyone else in this division. We just need to tighten up our defensive play. Oh, and find another striker or two.
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markf
Top Performer
Posts: 3,191
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Post by markf on Sept 21, 2014 20:55:08 GMT
I expect we was going to wear all white but as they had white shorts we had to wear amber. Helps the officials and my don't some of them need it.
As for the debate on abuse of players, I am not a supporter of having a go at our guys. I have raised my voice at one or two over the years but then I have watched a hell of a lot of matches. Prefer to vent my angst at the officials.
There is a school of thought about you pay your entrance fee so have a right to an opinion but rather we got behind the team.
Football stirs the passions in many of us and that can and is often expressed in a manner that most would not exhibit anywhere else in such a way. Except when driving of course!!
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Post by sallycat on Sept 21, 2014 21:00:24 GMT
Its all part & parcel of football sallycat and has been since i can remember, whether you like it or not. Of course no one abuses the ref!!! I know what football is like thanks. I've hardly missed a Sutton game in nearly 2 decades Sorry but your post did come over as slightly patronising although I'm sure you didn't mean it that way. Anyway, I'm sure thousands of men a century ago were telling women that not being allowed to vote was all part and parcel of being a woman, whether we liked it or not. Perhaps the previous century people were saying the same about slavery and putting children to work down mines. Just because something has always happened doesn't mean we should accept it or not bother speaking up against it. At the end of the day, restless and abusive crowds can negatively impact on players' performance and ultimately that can make us as fans suffer. Including those of us who don't approve.
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Post by sallycat on Sept 21, 2014 21:05:06 GMT
Does anyone know the story behind our kit on Saturday? Andy K hypothesised that it may have been a sponsorship issue - we have to show the away kit sponsors' logo a certain number of times per season and perhaps the away yellow kit hasn't been printed up yet. I'd argue that white shorts with that would've been fine as white/white/yellow wouldn't clash with red/white/white, but I'm sure they had their reasons! I did think it looked a bit odd myself.
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Post by Andy K on Sept 21, 2014 21:35:51 GMT
I think we've been here before - I remember something similar when we played Staines a couple years ago and Jack Turner (regardless of what you think of him personally) was mocked in quite an aggressive and abusive manner by a few supporters purely for the colour of his top. Some of us, including me thought the mocking, which was pretty homophobic at times, went too far and there were certainly a few posts of the "I've paid my money so I can say what I want" ilk. I suppose each individual has their own moral barometer and some people thought nothing of the fact that what they said was found offensive to others.
In this day and age we are all entitled to ones opinion - Sallycat voiced hers, but made it pretty clear she was disappointed. If people don't agree, fair enough, but if we're going to take the whole "we are all allowed to voice our opinion" then she was entitled to do so. Same with medibot who is also totally entitled to do so. I'm sure we all have opinions on various things, and I know I have a few about things at the club which I think are not right to be shouted out in public or posted on a forum. If you want to know them, please feel free to ask, but in terms of some of them wouldn't do any good in the open air so I keep them to myself. But it's good to know as adults, we have that right and make our own choices. Certainly if I was told that I wasn't allowed an opinion as a fan, it would be one of the very few things that would make me reconsider my loyalty to the club.
I'm waffling anyway - bottom line is that when things don't go well, let's respect each other a little more, whichever side of the fence we're on.
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Post by Del on Sept 21, 2014 21:36:51 GMT
Its all part & parcel of football sallycat and has been since i can remember, whether you like it or not. Of course no one abuses the ref!!! I know what football is like thanks. I've hardly missed a Sutton game in nearly 2 decades Sorry but your post did come over as slightly patronising although I'm sure you didn't mean it that way. Anyway, I'm sure thousands of men a century ago were telling women that not being allowed to vote was all part and parcel of being a woman, whether we liked it or not. Perhaps the previous century people were saying the same about slavery and putting children to work down mines. Just because something has always happened doesn't mean we should accept it or not bother speaking up against it. At the end of the day, restless and abusive crowds can negatively impact on players' performance and ultimately that can make us as fans suffer. Including those of us who don't approve. I'm not trying to patronise anyone and i don't want to abuse anyone. What i don't want to see is the passion taken out of football where we all end up politely applauding and don't express our true feelings. Next we will be giving women the vote & allowing them to drive cars!
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Post by Stewart on Sept 21, 2014 21:38:01 GMT
My biggest disappointment was not hearing the clarinet on Saturday....
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Post by Andy K on Sept 21, 2014 21:44:22 GMT
I'm not trying to patronise anyone and i don't want to abuse anyone. What i don't want to see is the passion taken out of football where we all end up politely applauding and don't express our true feelings. Next we will be giving women the vote & allowing them to drive cars! [/quote] I think we did that very well at the final whistle when 90% of our fans didn't stay and applaud the team. I'm happy to admit I was in that 90% because they didn't deserve it, and they would have got the message loud and clear by that one action alone. And had it reinforced by Dos probably quite loudly in the dressing room afterwards!
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Post by sallycat on Sept 21, 2014 21:58:03 GMT
I'm not trying to patronise anyone and i don't want to abuse anyone. What i don't want to see is the passion taken out of football where we all end up politely applauding and don't express our true feelings. I can see where you're coming from Delboy and I do understand what you mean but I don't believe that yelling abuse equals passionate support or that you can't have one without the other. There is a rather large grey area between those two extremes. Don't you feel there's any passion when we all get together and chant "United!" or "Sutton 'til I die"? I feel very passionately towards my club and I yell and shout as much as the next person but I and many others like me are living proof that you don't have to shout negative stuff at individuals to show your passion. I try my best to channel my frustration into positive rousing shouts but I'm far from perfect. I've been known to let loose the odd "f***s sake" above normal speaking volume but not loud enough for players to hear and I reckon venting your frustration at nobody in particular is a world away from shouting personal remarks at specific people based on how much you're guessing they earn and how you think they might feel about their job. Again, just my opinion but I know which I'd be more comfortable hearing if it were me. As for Andy's comment about some folk thinking they're entitled to do what they like if they pay their entrance fee (where would they draw that line?!) I personally would charge people a lot more than a tenner to talk to me like that - does this mean the actual football is free then?
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Post by Andy K on Sept 21, 2014 22:08:01 GMT
As for Andy's comment about some folk thinking they're entitled to do what they like if they pay their entrance fee (where would they draw that line?!) I personally would charge people a lot more than a tenner to talk to me like that - does this mean the actual football is free then? I suppose it's up to each person to decide where they draw the line. Certainly some examples I've seen (and I mean outside of SUFC too) draw the line much further than I would feel comfortable with. But also there are a lot of factors which put the line where it is, it would need it's own message board to investigate that further!!
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