England v Norway

[trev]

Tonight's France v USA clash was the pick of the bunch so far, a match worthy of the final. Highly competitive and at times the passage of play was breathtaking. Saying that, England's front 3 have the potential to play havoc with the USA's back lin. Roll on Tuesday...

[os]

I think the women's game has progressed, but I think the biggest issue is the size of the pitch and goals. Without being sexist, it s a simple fact that women are on average only about 5/6th the height of a man. I think if the size was reduced the women's game would flourish. Goal keepers get a really hard time, its like me playing in a goal that is a foot higher and 2 foot wider. Pace is another issue, lots of space on the pitch which men can close down, but a women will struggle to do.

Women would obviously struggle against a male side on a standard pitch, but you put the England's women team on a 5 a side pitch and they will not be easy to beat as they have excellent technical ability.

[trev]

No need for the mechanics of the women's game to change. One of the many positive things about women's football is the relative rarity of goalless draws compared to the men's game. I'm all for it. This world cup has been very entertaining. Even though the VAR system hasn't been without its hiccups, even that has added to the tournament's drama. I wish I was in France to see our team out there but I'd probably melt in that blistering Saharan heat.

[tonyd]

The commentators waxed lyrical about the 3rd goal against Norway, but I’d be disappointed if Jamie Butler was beaten by a shot from outside the box, just under the bar in the middle of the goal. And Jamie is a level 5 keeper, not an international playing in a World Cup. I’m sure it will improve but until then I’ll give women’s football a miss, just as I can’t be bothered with youth football.

[trev]

That is a rather jaded perception of women's football and additionally overlooks the fact that Jamie Butler is 5 ft 11" whereas Ingrid Hjelmseth is 5ft 8". In a game of small margins, that's a significant difference. Lucy Bronze's strike was an absolute belter, always rising, nestling just beneath the crossbar. The keeper didn't stand a chance in spite of her well timed leap. Beckham evidently appreciated it and he knows a thing or two about the beautiful game.

[oohaah]

Jun 29, 2019 22:57:15 GMT os said:

I think the women's game has progressed, but I think the biggest issue is the size of the pitch and goals. Without being sexist, it s a simple fact that women are on average only about 5/6th the height of a man. I think if the size was reduced the women's game would flourish. Goal keepers get a really hard time, its like me playing in a goal that is a foot higher and 2 foot wider. Pace is another issue, lots of space on the pitch which men can close down, but a women will struggle to do.

Women would obviously struggle against a male side on a standard pitch, but you put the England's women team on a 5 a side pitch and they will not be easy to beat as they have excellent technical ability.

Jeez Oz, I respect your views 100% most of the time but I'm surprised at this. You wouldn't expect England Schoolboys to play on a smaller pitch with reduced size goals would you? In fact I'm sure you've heard comments that the men's game would benefit from larger goals. You state that women would struggle against men on a standard pitch, but like most sports that's never going to happen. Would you expect women golfers to play on an especially constructed 16 hole golf course which is about 10% smaller than normal? of course not. I'm so pleased with the way women's football has progressed from the bad old days when I struggled to run a small time team back in the early 70's. Based in South East London and drawing players from Catford, South Croydon, and Islington, we had to play most of our home games at Wormwood Scrubs. Bromley Council were sympathetic but stated they didn't have the changing facilities. Croydon said we'd damage their pitches (seriously?) and Lewisham only came on board when Millwall FC started to give full backing to their Lionesses. I'm very proud that SUFC allowed us to play an exhibition game against the Lionesses before the final of one of the very popular 6 a side tournaments down at GGL (stuffed by the Lionesses 6-1 if I remember) On the pitch that day for the Lionesses was a very young Hope Powell who took on the England managers job from the late, and very great, Barrie Williams.

[trev]

That's a great post, oohaah! Thanks for sharing that background information, none of which I was previously aware of. It really illustrates the historical struggle that the women's game has had in this country to get any kind of respect and recognition. There's still some way to go, it would appear...

[brisfitboy]

Jun 29, 2019 22:57:15 GMT os said:

I think the women's game has progressed, but I think the biggest issue is the size of the pitch and goals. Without being sexist, it s a simple fact that women are on average only about 5/6th the height of a man. I think if the size was reduced the women's game would flourish. Goal keepers get a really hard time, its like me playing in a goal that is a foot higher and 2 foot wider. Pace is another issue, lots of space on the pitch which men can close down, but a women will struggle to do.

Women would obviously struggle against a male side on a standard pitch, but you put the England's women team on a 5 a side pitch and they will not be easy to beat as they have excellent technical ability.

Karen Bardsley is 6’ tall (or 1.82 in foreign), this makes her an inch taller than Jamie Butler. I also think that women’s football is very entertaining because they play in a less “mustn’t get hurt” way that our Prem boys do, my God what would happen if the Prem league played like that, people would have kittens 🐱. Rock on girls it’s good to see football played as it used to be and should be 👍

[tonyd]

That makes no sense to me at all. What is a “mustn’t get hurt way”? As for football as “it used to be played”, it was certainly considerably more violent than it is now, as anyone who watched Norman Hunter, Ron Harris, Nobby Stiles, Tommy Smith et al could attest. And let’s not forget that the AFA split away from the FA because the FA wanted to outlaw hacking, ie kicking the shins of a player who held the ball.

[brisfitboy]

Jun 30, 2019 10:44:22 GMT tonyd said:

That makes no sense to me at all. What is a “mustn’t get hurt way”? As for football as “it used to be played”, it was certainly considerably more violent than it is now, as anyone who watched Norman Hunter, Ron Harris, Nobby Stiles, Tommy Smith et al could attest. And let’s not forget that the AFA split away from the FA because the FA wanted to outlaw hacking, ie kicking the shins of a player who held the ball.

The differyis between watching Sutton United play football and watching Premier sides, I know what I would sooner see and enjoy it more with all its up and downs.

[os]

Interesting views.

I actually think that football 'all football' should be for everyone, by saying there are 6ft tall women's keepers, and there are, you will lock many talented players out of the game just because of their height. This happens in the mens game but a much higher percentage of men would be adequately tall enough to be a keeper.

I probably see equality a little differently from some, for me its about adapting the game to suit a women, its not about women adapting to be like men. I think that becomes exclusive rather than inclusive. Why should women have to put up with inferior defending because they physically cannot cover the space on a pitch.

[cheshire]

[/quote]Jeez Oz, I respect your views 100% most of the time but I'm surprised at this. You wouldn't expect England Schoolboys to play on a smaller pitch with reduced size goals would you? In fact I'm sure you've heard comments that the men's game would benefit from larger goals. You state that women would struggle against men on a standard pitch, but like most sports that's never going to happen. Would you expect women golfers to play on an especially constructed 16 hole golf course which is about 10% smaller than normal? of course not. I'm so pleased with the way women's football has progressed from the bad old days when I struggled to run a small time team back in the early 70's. Based in South East London and drawing players from Catford, South Croydon, and Islington, we had to play most of our home games at Wormwood Scrubs. Bromley Council were sympathetic but stated they didn't have the changing facilities. Croydon said we'd damage their pitches (seriously?) and Lewisham only came on board when Millwall FC started to give full backing to their Lionesses. I'm very proud that SUFC allowed us to play an exhibition game against the Lionesses before the final of one of the very popular 6 a side tournaments down at GGL (stuffed by the Lionesses 6-1 if I remember) On the pitch that day for the Lionesses was a very young Hope Powell who took on the England managers job from the late, and very great, Barrie Williams. [/quote]

On the point about women and golf, women do play on a smaller "pitch" in that sport. The women's tee is forward of the men's on each hole by around 10 or 15% recognising that they possess less physical power...but in both women's football and women's golf, the power is not the beauty, its their technical ability and finesse that we admire. In both football and golf I'd rather watch a skillful player rather than simply a powerful one!

[oohaah]

Jul 1, 2019 8:30:14 GMT cheshire said:

On the point about women and golf, women do play on a smaller "pitch" in that sport. The women's tee is forward of the men's on each hole by around 10 or 15% recognising that they possess less physical power...but in both women's football and women's golf, the power is not the beauty, its their technical ability and finesse that we admire. In both football and golf I'd rather watch a skillful player rather than simply a powerful one![/quote]

I did not know that - Thanks Cheshire!

[jr]

Jul 1, 2019 11:53:04 GMT oohaah said:

Jul 1, 2019 8:30:14 GMT cheshire said:

On the point about women and golf, women do play on a smaller "pitch" in that sport. The women's tee is forward of the men's on each hole by around 10 or 15% recognising that they possess less physical power...but in both women's football and women's golf, the power is not the beauty, its their technical ability and finesse that we admire. In both football and golf I'd rather watch a skillful player rather than simply a powerful one!

I did not know that - Thanks Cheshire!
[/quote]

And the women I play against hit it further than me so I find it grossly unfair

[os]

Jul 1, 2019 8:30:14 GMT cheshire said:

Jeez Oz, I respect your views 100% most of the time but I'm surprised at this. You wouldn't expect England Schoolboys to play on a smaller pitch with reduced size goals would you? In fact I'm sure you've heard comments that the men's game would benefit from larger goals. You state that women would struggle against men on a standard pitch, but like most sports that's never going to happen. Would you expect women golfers to play on an especially constructed 16 hole golf course which is about 10% smaller than normal? of course not. I'm so pleased with the way women's football has progressed from the bad old days when I struggled to run a small time team back in the early 70's. Based in South East London and drawing players from Catford, South Croydon, and Islington, we had to play most of our home games at Wormwood Scrubs. Bromley Council were sympathetic but stated they didn't have the changing facilities. Croydon said we'd damage their pitches (seriously?) and Lewisham only came on board when Millwall FC started to give full backing to their Lionesses. I'm very proud that SUFC allowed us to play an exhibition game against the Lionesses before the final of one of the very popular 6 a side tournaments down at GGL (stuffed by the Lionesses 6-1 if I remember) On the pitch that day for the Lionesses was a very young Hope Powell who took on the England managers job from the late, and very great, Barrie Williams.

I don't think the are argument is as straight forward as you suggest, within the game itself smaller pitches have long been advocated as a better way to develop skills in young players, and senior professional female goalkeepers are split on the issue themselves:

www.sportbible.com/football/pub-talk-emma-hayes-makes-case-for-womens-football-to-have-smaller-goals-20190522