oxford
Youth Team Player
Posts: 230
|
Post by oxford on Sept 22, 2020 18:44:29 GMT
Sorry. Forgot reply. The world cannot go on hold waiting for a vaccine. There is absolutely no guarantee there will ever be one.
|
|
kpinwp
1st team Player
Posts: 1,197
|
Post by kpinwp on Sept 22, 2020 19:34:24 GMT
Thanks for the heads up, Stewart. I agree wholeheartedly with Bruce that there has to be some form of financial support from the government if fans are not going to be allowed to attend matches during the new season. A significant amount of time and money has been expended by clubs in getting stadia "match fit" for the new season, and ours is no exception. It is incumbent upon a responsible and ethnical government to cover the losses incurred by any football clubs that have acted in good faith in accordance with the government's own regulations, especially when that same government then shifts the goalposts so soon before the scheduled start of the new season. As Bruce rightly says, our covid officer has bent over backwards taking the relevant precautions and spending money to ensure the club is as safe as humanly possible to allow fans back in. If it transpires that all those efforts have been in vain, the government must compensate us, and any other clubs that have been tirelessly jumping through hoops these past few months. If the government fails to do so, then as kpinwp pointed out, one wonders whether there'll be any sport left to come back to.. I agree 100% with Bruce that if one follows the science, there is no available epidemiological data capable of supporting a view that modest numbers of football fans [i.e. around 1000] in an outdoor environment are at any significant risk of spreading the virus. Hopefully common sense will prevail in all of this, but common sense is in relatively short supply these days. I have been quiet for a little while as I know my views were not popular, I think if people are honest they did really know there was little chance of starting the season with any sort of meaningful crowds. There should be no one who is surprised at where we find ourselves today. The ball is now firmly in the governments court, I have called for a support fund for the last 6 months to get clubs through this. I see no reason why clubs that are well run and serve a vital community resource should suffer disproportionally. I am really surprised that clubs and fans alike have not been more vocal on this, and yes I will get into trouble for this but I believe many have just stuck their fingers in their ears or choose not to look. I think clubs have been in fear of the National league not wishing to put their heads above the parapet in fear of reprisals. At the start of March I made a post stating that, we will be lucky if we are still here this season and whether we have a 'this season'- People thought I was mad or Bruce had spent all the clubs money on fast cars and women. I wasn't mad, and I am going to say again if clubs want to survive and fans want to keep their clubs its time to come out from under them rocks and start fighting. Its also about time the premier league came under fire, it does have obligations to lower league football. I don't expect fans to go back to football anytime soon, but I do expect funding, and I do expect fans to accept that streaming is the only way and its better than nothing, plus you owe it to your club to support them through good times as well as bad or you might find there is block of flats on GGL in years to come. I really hope today is a wake up call to all, clubs and fans, this our Waterloo!! Well, you seem to have expectation of a good many things from a good many people. As to how many of those will be met? I understand what you want and why you want it. But why do you think these things will actually happen? As opposed to Boosterish 'shoulds'. (May I observe that if one refers to something as being 'our Waterloo' it means that we lost?)
|
|
|
Post by os on Sept 22, 2020 20:04:01 GMT
I have been quiet for a little while as I know my views were not popular, I think if people are honest they did really know there was little chance of starting the season with any sort of meaningful crowds. There should be no one who is surprised at where we find ourselves today. The ball is now firmly in the governments court, I have called for a support fund for the last 6 months to get clubs through this. I see no reason why clubs that are well run and serve a vital community resource should suffer disproportionally. I am really surprised that clubs and fans alike have not been more vocal on this, and yes I will get into trouble for this but I believe many have just stuck their fingers in their ears or choose not to look. I think clubs have been in fear of the National league not wishing to put their heads above the parapet in fear of reprisals. At the start of March I made a post stating that, we will be lucky if we are still here this season and whether we have a 'this season'- People thought I was mad or Bruce had spent all the clubs money on fast cars and women. I wasn't mad, and I am going to say again if clubs want to survive and fans want to keep their clubs its time to come out from under them rocks and start fighting. Its also about time the premier league came under fire, it does have obligations to lower league football. I don't expect fans to go back to football anytime soon, but I do expect funding, and I do expect fans to accept that streaming is the only way and its better than nothing, plus you owe it to your club to support them through good times as well as bad or you might find there is block of flats on GGL in years to come. I really hope today is a wake up call to all, clubs and fans, this our Waterloo!! Well, you seem to have expectation of a good many things from a good many people. As to how many of those will be met? I understand what you want and why you want it. But why do you think these things will actually happen? As opposed to Boosterish 'shoulds'. (May I observe that if one refers to something as being 'our Waterloo' it means that we lost?) I am saying that if things stay as they are, clubs have just weeks to live, it won't be Waterloo it will be the Somme. I can't make anything actually happen.
|
|
kpinwp
1st team Player
Posts: 1,197
|
Post by kpinwp on Sept 22, 2020 21:42:05 GMT
I agree. I think we've all got a really big problem, here.
But, if I recall correctly, some months ago the Govt. stated that there would be no financial bail out for football because of the amount of money that already existed in the game. It couldn't be justified to the public. And I could see some logic in that.
Do the Premier League have any financial obligations to the maintenance of the lower leagues? I don't mean moral obligation, I mean; did they ever sign anything or issue a statement to that effect when the PL was set up? Anyone know of anything like that?
|
|
|
Post by os on Sept 22, 2020 21:50:45 GMT
I agree. I think we've all got a really big problem, here. But, if I recall correctly, some months ago the Govt. stated that there would be no financial bail out for football because of the amount of money that already existed in the game. It couldn't be justified to the public. And I could see some logic in that. Do the Premier League have any financial obligations to the maintenance of the lower leagues? I don't mean moral obligation, I mean; did they ever sign anything or issue a statement to that effect when the PL was set up? Anyone know of anything like that? I think they do as they made promises to support lower level football when the premier league was set up, they have never paid what they promised. I am sure others will know or remember more than me?
|
|
|
Post by VCLXI on Sept 22, 2020 21:57:30 GMT
I don't, no, but the Premier League was set up in 1992 and look at the difference it was then as opposed to now. I mean, the money involved back then was nothing compared to what it is today. No one comprehended how much of the behemoth the Premier League would become so the agreement, if any, might be a little more than worthless.
As above, someone might know more than me.
|
|
tonyd
1st team Player
Posts: 1,494
|
Post by tonyd on Sept 23, 2020 0:06:15 GMT
The key problem is that we are treated as an "elite" club. I'm sure the National League likes to think its clubs are part of the elite, but the points of comparison between ourselves and Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea etc are very few, beyond the obvious that we are all football clubs. I fail to see why holding a match with 1,000 people at GGL is likely to lead to a covid spike, particularly as having 600 spectators at smaller grounds is already allowed. And whilst the Premier League may be swimming with money and not in need of financial support from the government, I suspect that doesn't apply at Championship level, let alone National League level. Why hasn't the FA been pounding that message home?
At present the battle between the current government and the FA to be shown up as the most incompetent organisation is a dead heat.
|
|
kpinwp
1st team Player
Posts: 1,197
|
Post by kpinwp on Sept 23, 2020 0:23:12 GMT
The key problem is that we are treated as an "elite" club. I'm sure the National League likes to think its clubs are part of the elite, but the points of comparison between ourselves and Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea etc are very few, beyond the obvious that we are all football clubs. I fail to see why holding a match with 1,000 people at GGL is likely to lead to a covid spike, particularly as having 600 spectators at smaller grounds is already allowed. And whilst the Premier League may be swimming with money and not in need of financial support from the government, I suspect that doesn't apply at Championship level, let alone National League level. Why hasn't the FA been pounding that message home? At present the battle between the current government and the FA to be shown up as the most incompetent organisation is a dead heat. Quite!
|
|
markf
Top Performer
Posts: 3,207
|
Post by markf on Sept 23, 2020 6:40:14 GMT
Trevi said:
May I observe that if one refers to something as being 'our Waterloo' it means that we lost?
Actually, Abba won a European competition with Waterloo. Does that even things up?
|
|
markf
Top Performer
Posts: 3,207
|
Post by markf on Sept 23, 2020 7:07:48 GMT
As I stated on SU FB page, I always thought 2021 was a more realistic start date for a NL season.
This Government has made many mistakes (although hindsight is a wonderful thing). The Swedes have got through with little of the draconian measures we see here but that maybe because their vastly smaller population has been more vigilant at following the advice. I am not sure that a small but significant number of the uk population has. Hence the current upturn in cases.
The photos from matches at the weekend and the end of the Hashtag penalty shoot out suggest football fans here aren't going to follow those guidelines (emotions following a goal or victory resulting in the inevitable loss of control) and that will concern any Government with regards to allowing a 1,000 people into NL and above grounds.
I seem to remember a few clubs arguing that the NL should come under the elite tag for the sake of easier progression into the efl. That appears to have backfired.
Personally, I think most NL clubs could quite safely handle a 1k crowd but convincing the Government and more importantly the scientists whose advice it is following, maybe a little more difficult when they see behaviour such as I quoted above. When comparing some of the dictats handed down their appears to be a lack of knowledge about how football at our level works. Keeping pubs open ( enclosed spaces) against not allowing relatively small gatherings into certain open air venues is one. Pubs to help keep the economy going but then what about the thousands involved in football at nl and EFL level that also helps drive local fiscal operations?
It is not just football of course as other sports have these issues too.
I fear for many clubs, the players, managers etc if the various football bodies can't get the Government to realise the difference between NL and PL is huge compared to that of the NL and below where small crowds are currently. permitted. We need to lose that elite tag, which is both inappropriate and currently crippling.
|
|
|
Post by Amber Aleman on Sept 23, 2020 7:08:30 GMT
This is, of course, not just a problem for Sutton Utd. Every football club below the Championship (and clubs at equivalent levels in other sports) will struggle to survive without regular matchday income. The Government will realise this and won't want to be held responsible for the demise of dozens of community-orientated clubs. So if viable crowds can't return soon, and if streaming can't adequately fill the income gap, I'd expect some sort of support package to materialise. It may be that clubs simply go into hibernation for the season and there is a new furlough scheme for players and other employees.
I suspect that any further financial help from the Premier League will (as happened earlier this year) be targeted mainly at the EFL and not much will trickle down to non-League. Top-level clubs are facing their own financial squeeze, albeit on a very different scale from ours.
|
|
kpinwp
1st team Player
Posts: 1,197
|
Post by kpinwp on Sept 23, 2020 10:27:12 GMT
I wish I was as confident that the Govt will financially support us. The economic situation is going to become extremely harsh very soon. Chunks of the entertainment sector will, inevitably, go under. I know we have a PM who loathes being unpopular but, even so, the support packages won't go on ad inf.
|
|
|
Post by Andy K on Sept 23, 2020 10:32:23 GMT
Step 3 and below can continue unchanged
The start of our season will now depend on the league arguing that those rules need to be expanded to include the national league.
|
|
|
Post by steveo77 on Sept 23, 2020 11:28:36 GMT
Step 3 and below can continue unchanged The start of our season will now depend on the league arguing that those rules need to be expanded to include the national league. Crazy if the clubs below us can continue. So Sutton Common Rovers can play at the ground but Sutton United can’t But if the National League is unable to continue then surely there cannot be any promotion/relegation this season .
|
|
|
Post by fran1 on Sept 23, 2020 11:44:05 GMT
I saw a transcript of our Chairmans' recent conversation on media. He obviously cannot guarantee that Sutton United FC can survive if we cannot operate with spectators in the coming scheduled season. There seems to be just one MP on our side; Tracy Couch. She addressed the House of Commons yesterday during the session at which the PM addressed the House. She has previously raised the plight of clubs lower down the pyramid on other occasions too.
|
|