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Post by Amber Aleman on Feb 18, 2024 19:48:39 GMT
I think the time is right for a thread about the direction of travel under our new Head Coach.
As we know, an awful lot is at stake in 2024. When Steve was appointed, I assume his brief was to keep the club in League Two. I also assume that he wouldn't have taken the job unless he believed he had a good chance of doing that. The task was challenging given where we were in the table, but he had most of a transfer window in which to refresh the squad, and almost half of a league programme in which to turn results round.
Eight matches into his tenure, and we're still waiting for his first win. His initial three games, battling draws in awkward-looking fixtures, offered some encouragement. But since then the results have gone unsteadily downhill, and, for all the team's obvious endeavours, he's now lost his last three. His points per game record at Sutton of 0.5 is now worse than both Matt Gray's this season (0.66) and Jason Goodliffe's (1). Despite a switch to a more possession-based style of football, the team is averaging less than one goal a game, and hasn't kept a clean sheet since Boxing Day. The players who joined in January don't, taken as a group, look any better than the ones who left.
Steve (as we were warned) hasn't established any rapport with the fans. If he were leading the team to League Two safety, nobody would be much bothered about that. Taken with a run of poor results, it rather suggests a bunker mentality. Despite his loosening up in interviews, I retain a nagging sense that he's just not a good fit for this football club.
It's still possible that he'll engineer a near-miraculous surge to survival. What's more likely is that results will improve but not nearly enough to take us above 23rd place. Would that be good enough? If he falls well short of expectations come the end of April, should there be a recognition that the appointment was a mistake, and a parting of the ways agreed?
None of this is intended as a criticism by the way, and I do really hope that Steve can still deliver for this club. But that hope is running dry.
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Post by garethl on Feb 18, 2024 20:25:38 GMT
I think it’s way too early to make any judgements. What the players need more than anything is a win or 2. Inject a bit of confidence and things could look very different very quickly.
I’d be a bit surprised if Steve isn’t with us next season and for the whole season. It seemed as though we went through a thorough process and I just can’t see him or us wanting it to be just get to the end of the season and re-evaluate. If that had happened if it had gone well we’d likely have lost him and I don’t think he would have left Hornchurch without a bit more of a shot than the rest of the season given the precarious nature we were in at the time of the appointment. My bet is his contract is for next season too but total guess work on my part.
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Post by Andy K on Feb 18, 2024 20:49:41 GMT
I think it’s way too early to make any judgements. What the players need more than anything is a win or 2. Inject a bit of confidence and things could look very different very quickly. I’d be a bit surprised if Steve isn’t with us next season and for the whole season. It seemed as though we went through a thorough process and I just can’t see him or us wanting it to be just get to the end of the season and re-evaluate. If that had happened if it had gone well we’d likely have lost him and I don’t think he would have left Hornchurch without a bit more of a shot than the rest of the season given the precarious nature we were in at the time of the appointment. My bet is his contract is for next season too but total guess work on my part. I believe when his appointment was announced it was an initial 18 month contract. No idea if there are any clauses in there though.
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Post by garethl on Feb 18, 2024 21:57:02 GMT
I think it’s way too early to make any judgements. What the players need more than anything is a win or 2. Inject a bit of confidence and things could look very different very quickly. I’d be a bit surprised if Steve isn’t with us next season and for the whole season. It seemed as though we went through a thorough process and I just can’t see him or us wanting it to be just get to the end of the season and re-evaluate. If that had happened if it had gone well we’d likely have lost him and I don’t think he would have left Hornchurch without a bit more of a shot than the rest of the season given the precarious nature we were in at the time of the appointment. My bet is his contract is for next season too but total guess work on my part. I believe when his appointment was announced it was an initial 18 month contract. No idea if there are any clauses in there though. I missed that then, certainly don’t recall that being said on the initial announcement on the official site.
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Post by boomboom on Feb 18, 2024 22:01:10 GMT
Eight matches into his tenure, and we're still waiting for his first win. His initial three games, battling draws in awkward-looking fixtures, offered some encouragement. But since then the results have gone unsteadily downhill, and, for all the team's obvious endeavours, he's now lost his last three. His points per game record at Sutton of 0.5 is now worse than both Matt Gray's this season (0.66) and Jason Goodliffe's (1). Despite a switch to a more possession-based style of football, the team is averaging less than one goal a game, and hasn't kept a clean sheet since Boxing Day. I'd suggest it's far too early to make a meaningful comparison of points per game. Best wait until the end of the season for that. To add a bit of balance, whilst there have been no clean sheets since Boxing Day, I think I'm right in saying there was only one (in the league) before then vs Walsall. For anyone inclined to work it out, I'd expect there's been a big improvement in average goals conceded per game . Whether or not any of that changes in the remaining games, we'll have to wait and see. I feel the team is playing rather better, and a more entertaining style of, football under Steve than Matt in the middle of the park but we're still failing in and around our and opponents' penalty areas which is ultimately all that counts. It goes without saying that results continue to be hugely disappointing.
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Post by paz on Feb 18, 2024 23:07:02 GMT
Performances have improved, results have not. His recruitment has been good. I imagine when the club hired a new manager they did so also with the understanding that there was a strong possibility that we will get relegated and he would need to rebuild a side for us in the Nat league and a couple of his signings have looked like he is also keeping that in mind.
My view is that perhaps we are just not good enough to stay up this year, and providing things do not go pear shaped with Steve, then I am happy to back him into next season. We have rarely been out played under Steve with most games being very even. Morecambe the only flat performance.
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Post by Amber Aleman on Feb 19, 2024 10:13:47 GMT
I'll just make the rather obvious point that if the club wanted a manager to rebuild a side for a National League campaign, they might as well have kept on Matt Gray - who does, after all, have a rather good record at that level!
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Post by paz on Feb 19, 2024 11:35:43 GMT
I'll just make the rather obvious point that if the club wanted a manager to rebuild a side for a National League campaign, they might as well have kept on Matt Gray - who does, after all, have a rather good record at that level! I don't think it was one or the other. They needed someone who could have a go at keeping us up with a different approach, but with the contacts and capabilities of having a go in the Nat League should go we down. The way I see it, personally, Matt is not Sutton United. He spent 5 seasons with half of that time being fantastic and the end of it being extremely poor, result and performance wise. And we move on.
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kpinwp
1st team Player
Posts: 1,245
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Post by kpinwp on Feb 19, 2024 15:50:15 GMT
I'll just make the rather obvious point that if the club wanted a manager to rebuild a side for a National League campaign, they might as well have kept on Matt Gray - who does, after all, have a rather good record at that level! It simply wasn't credible for the board to keep Matt after the 8-0 drubbing, and the previous run of poor results. Especially, as you mention at the top, with a fair amount of the season still to play. Something different had to be tried, or it would have signalled either an early white flag or a level of bone headed stubborness.
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Post by banjo on Feb 19, 2024 17:32:32 GMT
I'll just make the rather obvious point that if the club wanted a manager to rebuild a side for a National League campaign, they might as well have kept on Matt Gray - who does, after all, have a rather good record at that level! The board wants us to stay up, why they removed Matt, he had got stale and run out of ideas. Yes it hasn’t gone with flying colours, but we are playing much better if not the results weed like, and if we go down Steve can build his own team and me thinks the board will want to come back up as soon ass possible.⚽️⚽️
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Post by baboonfish on Feb 20, 2024 0:02:32 GMT
In hindsight, it would've taken a certain type of manager to turn this around quickly enough. Someone like a Steve Evans, who would've made us utterly horrible to play against. I believe one of the reasons Matt Gray had to go was because the style of football was as bad as the results. Fans expect to be entertained these days.
Steve Morison may not have got the results, but he has already changed our style of football significantly. I struggle to recall a Sutton team who could dominate possession. Steve wants us to play a certain way, and let's face it, very few of the players here when he arrived are good enough on the ball to fit that style. None of our centre backs are possession based, and I wouldn't describe any of our other players as great passers either. Hence why his first signing was a player like Lakin.
Change projects take a long time. Sadly, we don't have time if we are to retain our football league status. I suspect the board were happy to accept a change in style, culture and footballing philosophy would probably mean relegation. I genuinely believe Morison will get us playing good football and get results eventually, but in all likelihood, that will be in non league. If we can find our feet next season then push on, we could be back stronger in 3 or 4 years without huge infrastructure projects required, meaning more cash to spend on the team. Or maybe we'll never be back.
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Post by Big Al on Feb 20, 2024 4:59:51 GMT
Far too early in my opinion to say if Steve was the right appointment but I think we can definitively say that it was the right decision to part company with Matt - personally I think we left the decision several weeks too late for any new manager to save the situation.
Whilst it might sound negative I think the bigger threat at the time of the appointment was not whether we would be relegated from the FL but if we would descend into a club that quickly slid out of the NL as well. Under Steve I think there is at least encouragement that we can stabilise next year and re establish some foundations. In many ways I would rather see us as a successful team winning games in the National League than continually losing in the FL. Again whether Steve is the right man for that particular job is too early to say but there are at least some encouraging signs and, recognising all he did for us, Matt’s tome was and is done
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Post by banjo on Feb 20, 2024 10:21:14 GMT
In hindsight, it would've taken a certain type of manager to turn this around quickly enough. Someone like a Steve Evans, who would've made us utterly horrible to play against. I believe one of the reasons Matt Gray had to go was because the style of football was as bad as the results. Fans expect to be entertained these days. Steve Morison may not have got the results, but he has already changed our style of football significantly. I struggle to recall a Sutton team who could dominate possession. Steve wants us to play a certain way, and let's face it, very few of the players here when he arrived are good enough on the ball to fit that style. None of our centre backs are possession based, and I wouldn't describe any of our other players as great passers either. Hence why his first signing was a player like Lakin. Change projects take a long time. Sadly, we don't have time if we are to retain our football league status. I suspect the board were happy to accept a change in style, culture and footballing philosophy would probably mean relegation. I genuinely believe Morison will get us playing good football and get results eventually, but in all likelihood, that will be in non league. If we can find our feet next season then push on, we could be back stronger in 3 or 4 years without huge infrastructure projects required, meaning more cash to spend on the team. Or maybe we'll never be back. I think if we go down the club must keep progressing forward as though we are still in this league, like the new stand and other projects, so we can come back stronger and with a team that can move us forward. “Still with a tweak off staying up though”⚽️
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Post by cheshire on Feb 20, 2024 14:57:49 GMT
Whilst a manager needs to instill confidence in those around him, demonstrate a relaxed and controlled manner and stay level headed (even when things are not going as planned) it struck me as rather paradoxical that Steve arrived in January (presumably full of optimism like the rest of us) but when interviewed gave the impression of a manager immediately "under siege" during his strained and tetchy pre and post match conversations with Tony. In recent weeks, the results we were hoping for have not materialised yet now Steve comes across as much more relaxed and convivial! Whilst this is nice to see, I would have expected to detect even more tension and abrupt replies during these exchanges.
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Post by sallycat on Feb 20, 2024 17:04:59 GMT
I think he just needed some time to settle in and get to know people a bit.
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