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Post by boomboom on May 12, 2024 10:04:28 GMT
In a way, it's understandable that Steve doesn't mention specifics because it might be seen as pointing the finger.
Like others, I'm not a mindreader but maybe he has in mind player recruitment and fitness?
Matt made some excellent signings in our NL days, less so in the EFL. Each of our EFL seasons seemed to be characterised by an abnormally large number of injured players, with those injuries often taking a long time to clear up.
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Post by halftimet on May 12, 2024 16:32:04 GMT
TBH, as a league club for the past 3 seasons the club should already be professional in all respects. At the end of the day, the club needs investment to be able to compete with the big boys in the National if it hopes to ever be a league club again. I believe Steve is a good manager, but you cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear. I would like to hear an honest view from the board as to what mistakes they felt they made, and how its going to be better next time around? Since relegation nothing has come out from the board about their plans for the club going forward. Who are the big boys in the National League? Wrexham, Notts County, Stockport, Leyton Orient and Chesterfield have all moved on?
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Post by Del on May 12, 2024 17:51:22 GMT
TBH, as a league club for the past 3 seasons the club should already be professional in all respects. At the end of the day, the club needs investment to be able to compete with the big boys in the National if it hopes to ever be a league club again. I believe Steve is a good manager, but you cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear. I would like to hear an honest view from the board as to what mistakes they felt they made, and how its going to be better next time around? Since relegation nothing has come out from the board about their plans for the club going forward. Who are the big boys in the National League? Wrexham, Notts County, Stockport, Leyton Orient and Chesterfield have all moved on? i don't believe there are any. However Southend went on a good run,Oldham & Rochdale seem to have got their acts together.
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Post by os on May 13, 2024 22:38:31 GMT
Since relegation nothing has come out from the board about their plans for the club going forward. That's not quite true though. We already know that the club have no plans to go back to 3G and intend to push for promotion again, or have I misheard this? That sounds great, but how is promotion back to the EFL going to be achieved? Money doesn't grow on trees, it has to come from somewhere. We will be competing with clubs with bigger budgets unless more cash is injected into the club. Parachute payments are going to help with over hang expenditure, then there is debt accrued over the past 3 seasons which needs to be serviced. The club has nearly 30 more paid staff than it did in the National league days, are they staying or will that be cut. Attendances will be lower in the National, income will be lower, no income from any 3G pitch as the club had before promotion . Its easy to say the club plans to get back to the EFL, and lot more difficult to do without the funding. Is it unreasonable to ask what that/those plans are?
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Post by JK on May 15, 2024 12:13:42 GMT
We should only know their plans and position if we are still a fan owned club. Otherwise they have the right to treat the fans merely as spectators and customers.
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Post by Andy K on May 15, 2024 13:03:37 GMT
We should only know their plans and position if we are still a fan owned club. Otherwise they have the right to treat the fans merely as spectators and customers. Utter nonsense.
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Post by JK on May 15, 2024 13:49:13 GMT
We should only know their plans and position if we are still a fan owned club. Otherwise they have the right to treat the fans merely as spectators and customers. Utter nonsense. Can you expand on your response please ?
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Post by Andy K on May 15, 2024 13:57:29 GMT
Yes.
The vast majority of clubs in the English Football system are not "fans owned". In fact they're the opposite. Even the claim that we are "fans owned" has never been true in the real sense. The ones that are wholly or virtually wholly owned by fans are mostly phoenix clubs.
What you are saying is that all clubs that are not treat fans as spectators and customers. Which is demonstrably untrue.
Hence why you are talking utter nonsense.
I hope that clears that up.
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Post by JK on May 15, 2024 14:29:55 GMT
Yes. The vast majority of clubs in the English Football system are not "fans owned". In fact they're the opposite. Even the claim that we are "fans owned" has never been true in the real sense. The ones that are wholly or virtually wholly owned by fans are mostly phoenix clubs. What you are saying is that all clubs that are not treat fans as spectators and customers. Which is demonstrably untrue. Hence why you are talking utter nonsense. I hope that clears that up. Thank you but I can not see how this relates. The club themselves have always advertised the fan owned narrative. The club was fan owned between 1953 when company was formed upto 2017? When Mbuzz were allowed in. At no time in that period was sutton a phoenix club. For fans of higher level clubs there is an expectation of their place in the order from day one. They know they are not going to get a say. Only exceptions of large clubs I can think of is spurs with the fan owned pitch (not stadium) . But even with that, the fans can not use them shares to change anything. For fans of sutton who have been around longer than 3 years and remember when it was fan owned, they will also remember why the company had controls in place to safe guard against take overs like we saw with Dupree at carshalton or uncle urchin at Hornchurch. It was never supposed to be controlled by a minority. For fans that have joined in the past 3 years then they will know no different and expect nothing other than to buy tickets and attend games as you would in efl championship and prem. they would not expect to have a say or have any involvement past chanting and cheering. Do you view the club then as owned by non fans? If so then why do you think them non fans who put the money in (or taking it out) should listen to any of us? If you believe that the club is owned by fans, please tell us about the many times you stood with Gary Otto or Martin the mbuzz rep on the terraces. At least when it came to Salford, the Neville’s would stand with the fans. At the end of the day if sutton is now owned mostly by money men then the fans have no rights, again we are all now just customers, we can leave feedback but not much else.
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Post by boomboom on May 15, 2024 16:58:35 GMT
To my mind, a true "fans-owned club" follows the criteria as set out by the Football Supporters Association: thefsa.org.uk/our-work/supporter-ownership/ essentially one member = one vote. In that sense, Sutton has never been a "fans-owned club" as far as I, as a relatively recent supporter, am aware. It's quite possible, of course, that a club might have a single supporter who controls the club, having 51% of the shares. Clearly, that means that it won't necessarily be run according to the wishes of the vast majority of fans even though some might believe it is "fans-owned".
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Post by JK on May 15, 2024 17:00:32 GMT
That is your opinion Banjo, however I stick by mine and can rest assured I am doing my bit to try and open your eyes. What I have said is all factual, I am not giving you my own opinion.
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Post by banjo on May 15, 2024 17:10:23 GMT
That is your opinion Banjo, however I stick by mine and can rest assured I am doing my bit to try and open your eyes. What I have said is all factual, I am not giving you my own opinion. Like I said if your not happy how the club is run go and speak to them the door is always open⚽️⚽️⚽️
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markf
Top Performer
Posts: 3,306
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Post by markf on May 15, 2024 18:09:28 GMT
As has been pointed out on this thread, SUFC has not been a fans owned club in the sense of the FAs criteria of such.
What it has been is a club run by those who consider themselves as fans. These include former Supporters Club committee members, people whose families have a long standing connection with the club and long term volunteers who have supplied different skills and knowledge.
As I understand it "ownership" has been by a shareholding. The max shareholding allowed per individual or company is set so that no single entity has overall control and therefore there are a fair number of "owners".
However, there, are of course, those with a significant shareholding and it only stands to reason that having invested comparitively heavily, they may be seen to be calling the tune.
After Dos left there was no way that the old model was going to be enough to finance the club at NL level thus the club, having been approached by interested parties, released more shares for those parties to invest in the club.
Our elevation to the EFL gave the club a much larger profile and thus attracted further interest.
There remains a balance of the old and the new on the BOD. However, the club has changed, it had to if it wanted to stay in the NL let alone the EFL.
I too would welcome some sort of update from the club but I would say the season has only been over for 3 weeks. Individuals maybe on holiday thus some of the info people on here are asking for may have not been finalised. If the case, I doubt the club would want to release anything prematurely.
Of course, the above may contain a number of inaccuracies but it is only how I understand it.
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Post by os on May 15, 2024 22:50:07 GMT
I think that is a really considered response, yes the club changed, and yes in some respects that needed to happen. I like many who worked / helped throughout the Dos era on many things the club now has or has taken forward, did put suggestions and plans to the board of how things could progress, including structural changes.
One of the main things was for the club to stick to the ethos that had proved successful, that of volunteers and unpaid lifelong fans being able to build things from the ground up and make them work.
It was clear in that run up to EFL that just was not going to be wanted anymore, and those board room doors started to close.
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markf
Top Performer
Posts: 3,306
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Post by markf on May 16, 2024 5:36:00 GMT
Read my third to last paragraph again.
It was nothing to do with no longer being wanted, it was and remains what was necessary to sustain the club at NL level (or above) both financially and administratively (thank the Lord for predictive text on that last word!).
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