TonyD
Spectator
Posts: 27
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Post by TonyD on May 16, 2024 8:57:45 GMT
So we unexpectedly won promotion to the EFL. Had to replace the 3G pitch with grass. Build new turnstiles and put in new food outlets, toilets, club shop, ticketing, fan zones etc. Build a new stand. Find a new training facility. Sign lots of new players. Enhanced stewarding and groundkeeping and no doubt lots of other things. The Board managed all of these things. Yet some people think it was all a disaster because of shortcomings in social media and SUFCTV. Get a life!
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Post by JK on May 16, 2024 11:09:25 GMT
So we unexpectedly won promotion to the EFL. Had to replace the 3G pitch with grass. Build new turnstiles and put in new food outlets, toilets, club shop, ticketing, fan zones etc. Build a new stand. Find a new training facility. Sign lots of new players. Enhanced stewarding and groundkeeping and no doubt lots of other things. The Board managed all of these things. Yet some people think it was all a disaster because of shortcomings in social media and SUFCTV. Get a life! If you are referring to other threads then. You will find I was asked to expand on one thing, which I did. However that does not mean that is the limit of what I have to say. There were issues with all that you mention too. Getting the wrong people on to lay concrete for away area meaning it had to be done all over again at extra cost…. But I will not burden you with all that as you know better obviously. I am aware now that the folk on this forum that currently interact are not people who have ever been really involved with the club enough to know or understand things of this level. I am sorry too that you have a very limited view of media, it is / was a key weapon which should of been used better and those chickens will come home to roost when crowds drop and gate receipts fall.
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Post by paz on May 16, 2024 13:18:09 GMT
I think it has to be said... While there is no doubt that people have a right to their views and concerns, especially as paying customers and supporters, sometimes we might forget how successful the club and the board have been over the last 15 or so years. Of course, since we have been in the league we have come up short with a few things, which most expected would happen, and last season was awful with much criticism due. But overall I think we can say we have been doing pretty well as a club and have a lot to be proud of, remembering that we are indeed a very small club. Cheer up folks!
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Post by Andy K on May 16, 2024 16:01:36 GMT
Yes. The vast majority of clubs in the English Football system are not "fans owned". In fact they're the opposite. Even the claim that we are "fans owned" has never been true in the real sense. The ones that are wholly or virtually wholly owned by fans are mostly phoenix clubs. What you are saying is that all clubs that are not treat fans as spectators and customers. Which is demonstrably untrue. Hence why you are talking utter nonsense. I hope that clears that up. Thank you but I can not see how this relates. The club themselves have always advertised the fan owned narrative. The club was fan owned between 1953 when company was formed upto 2017? When Mbuzz were allowed in. At no time in that period was sutton a phoenix club. For fans of higher level clubs there is an expectation of their place in the order from day one. They know they are not going to get a say. Only exceptions of large clubs I can think of is spurs with the fan owned pitch (not stadium) . But even with that, the fans can not use them shares to change anything. For fans of sutton who have been around longer than 3 years and remember when it was fan owned, they will also remember why the company had controls in place to safe guard against take overs like we saw with Dupree at carshalton or uncle urchin at Hornchurch. It was never supposed to be controlled by a minority. For fans that have joined in the past 3 years then they will know no different and expect nothing other than to buy tickets and attend games as you would in efl championship and prem. they would not expect to have a say or have any involvement past chanting and cheering. Do you view the club then as owned by non fans? If so then why do you think them non fans who put the money in (or taking it out) should listen to any of us? If you believe that the club is owned by fans, please tell us about the many times you stood with Gary Otto or Martin the mbuzz rep on the terraces. At least when it came to Salford, the Neville’s would stand with the fans. At the end of the day if sutton is now owned mostly by money men then the fans have no rights, again we are all now just customers, we can leave feedback but not much else. For clarification, not only have I never considered Sutton being fans owned, when that tag line was being touted a few years ago, I was vocal suggesting that this claim was disingenuous. On an equity basis, I can't help others who failed to understand this. Frakey on the other hand has made a superb point regarding high and lower level decision makers throughout the years throughout the club. Social equity is much higher. Doesn't make us fan owned. Makes us fan run. 20 years ago, the majority of fans never expected to "have a say". With our SLO in place, in the last 3 years, fans have more of a say. There is a clear channel of communication between club and fans. Unfortunately there are a minority of fans who, how should I put this, thought they had more influence before we were in the EFL, and now don't. They've had their nose put out of joint, and sadly now post on here in a bitter way because of it. You're welcome to decide who is in that group.
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Post by boomboom on May 16, 2024 20:11:00 GMT
So we unexpectedly won promotion to the EFL. Had to replace the 3G pitch with grass. Build new turnstiles and put in new food outlets, toilets, club shop, ticketing, fan zones etc. Build a new stand. Find a new training facility. Sign lots of new players. Enhanced stewarding and groundkeeping and no doubt lots of other things. The Board managed all of these things. Yet some people think it was all a disaster because of shortcomings in social media and SUFCTV. Get a life! Well said. And, if the Board's performance has been so bad off the pitch, it's quite remarkable (as the late, great David Coleman was fond of saying!) that attendances fell by a mere 0.7% last season despite such a frankly dire season on the pitch.
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Post by os on May 16, 2024 22:47:24 GMT
Thank you but I can not see how this relates. The club themselves have always advertised the fan owned narrative. The club was fan owned between 1953 when company was formed upto 2017? When Mbuzz were allowed in. At no time in that period was sutton a phoenix club. For fans of higher level clubs there is an expectation of their place in the order from day one. They know they are not going to get a say. Only exceptions of large clubs I can think of is spurs with the fan owned pitch (not stadium) . But even with that, the fans can not use them shares to change anything. For fans of sutton who have been around longer than 3 years and remember when it was fan owned, they will also remember why the company had controls in place to safe guard against take overs like we saw with Dupree at carshalton or uncle urchin at Hornchurch. It was never supposed to be controlled by a minority. For fans that have joined in the past 3 years then they will know no different and expect nothing other than to buy tickets and attend games as you would in efl championship and prem. they would not expect to have a say or have any involvement past chanting and cheering. Do you view the club then as owned by non fans? If so then why do you think them non fans who put the money in (or taking it out) should listen to any of us? If you believe that the club is owned by fans, please tell us about the many times you stood with Gary Otto or Martin the mbuzz rep on the terraces. At least when it came to Salford, the Neville’s would stand with the fans. At the end of the day if sutton is now owned mostly by money men then the fans have no rights, again we are all now just customers, we can leave feedback but not much else. Unfortunately there are a minority of fans who, how should I put this, thought they had more influence before we were in the EFL, and now don't. They've had their nose put out of joint, and sadly now post on here in a bitter way because of it. You're welcome to decide who is in that group. I think 'bitter' is a bit strong, I would say frustrated and disappointed would be closer to the mark. That minority of fans, and I include previous board members, and a certain manager did have a proven track record of success over a long period of time. It was that success in all areas of the club that created a situation where new investors wanted to come in. Does this current board have a proven record of success?
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Post by davethegrave on May 18, 2024 9:58:31 GMT
I am sorry too that you have a very limited view of media, it is / was a key weapon which should of been used better and those chickens will come home to roost when crowds drop and gate receipts fall. [/quote]
Should of been better used? What kind of English is that?
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Post by JK on May 18, 2024 10:31:15 GMT
I am sorry too that you have a very limited view of media, it is / was a key weapon which should of been used better and those chickens will come home to roost when crowds drop and gate receipts fall. Should of been better used? What kind of English is that?[/quote] Meh , it is what happens when you type a quick response on a phone. Do not think for one moment that I spend hours crafting responses for this place.
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Post by os on May 18, 2024 23:02:52 GMT
So we unexpectedly won promotion to the EFL. Had to replace the 3G pitch with grass. Build new turnstiles and put in new food outlets, toilets, club shop, ticketing, fan zones etc. Build a new stand. Find a new training facility. Sign lots of new players. Enhanced stewarding and groundkeeping and no doubt lots of other things. The Board managed all of these things. Yet some people think it was all a disaster because of shortcomings in social media and SUFCTV. Get a life! This is quite a narrow view, you are quite correct that the club had to do all those things when it was promoted, and again it wasn't all a disaster because of social media. The question is have those things been handled efficiently, and at best cost? If you take the infrastructure and facilities, you do have to look at the fact the club still owes the money for them by way of debt which has to be serviced going forward. The board by its own admission made mistakes, but have not disclosed what they were, and importantly how much it added to those costs and debt. The second part regarding media is linked by virture of the fact that media now plays a huge part in any clubs operations. It doesn't just involve video or social media, it covers marketing, advertising, it is how the majority audeince interacts with the club. It is more important than I think many posters on here think, and I think that is something our new director Ben has seen for himself, and I understand a new appointment has been made to cover all aspects of media. This is something that should have been done 3/4 years ago rather than allowing it to drift. Its a real shame that these new roles are not advertised on the club website, because there is talent within the fanbase. I worry about people with no connection to the club being parachuted in, as it really didn't work last time with appointments such as the previous commercial manger.
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Post by Nick the Greek/The Speshul One on May 19, 2024 9:13:47 GMT
Both Commercial Director and Marketing Director were advertised (I saw both on LinkedIn), so not exactly parachuted in.
Unfortunately when you go professional, amateurs who did a great job may not be up to it. Having the time or experience or skill set may be some of the many reasons the club ended up recruiting externally.
We all know including the Board not everything was done right, maybe bringing external investment was also a way of bringing people who would help. All clubs make mistakes.
We do not own our ground so there is no fear these people are looking to turn a quick buck.
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Post by davethegrave on May 19, 2024 19:43:32 GMT
I thought I'd see what he had to say but as I'm not on Twatter/X/Instamatic or whatever I've got no idea.
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Post by boomboom on May 21, 2024 14:26:06 GMT
I thought I'd see what he had to say but as I'm not on Twatter/X/Instamatic or whatever I've got no idea. I'm not on any of these either. However, you just need to click the link as I did.
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Post by davethegrave on May 21, 2024 16:20:56 GMT
I thought I'd see what he had to say but as I'm not on Twatter/X/Instamatic or whatever I've got no idea. I'm not on any of these either. However, you just need to click the link as I did. OK. thought I had to sign in.
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Post by os on May 21, 2024 22:56:24 GMT
Both Commercial Director and Marketing Director were advertised (I saw both on LinkedIn), so not exactly parachuted in. Unfortunately when you go professional, amateurs who did a great job may not be up to it. Having the time or experience or skill set may be some of the many reasons the club ended up recruiting externally. We all know including the Board not everything was done right, maybe bringing external investment was also a way of bringing people who would help. All clubs make mistakes. We do not own our ground so there is no fear these people are looking to turn a quick buck. What I would say is yes fine, the investors put their money in for whatever reason, and they get to choose the shots. This club is known for its semi pro / amateur defeats of proffessionals, it is how such a small club such as ours managed to make league football a reality, and make the club an attractive proposition to new investors. All we can see is the result of the old club with its amateurs vs those of the new professionals, how else can we or should we judge?
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Post by boomboom on May 22, 2024 7:43:00 GMT
Both Commercial Director and Marketing Director were advertised (I saw both on LinkedIn), so not exactly parachuted in. Unfortunately when you go professional, amateurs who did a great job may not be up to it. Having the time or experience or skill set may be some of the many reasons the club ended up recruiting externally. We all know including the Board not everything was done right, maybe bringing external investment was also a way of bringing people who would help. All clubs make mistakes. We do not own our ground so there is no fear these people are looking to turn a quick buck. What I would say is yes fine, the investors put their money in for whatever reason, and they get to choose the shots. This club is known for its semi pro / amateur defeats of proffessionals, it is how such a small club such as ours managed to make league football a reality, and make the club an attractive proposition to new investors. All we can see is the result of the old club with its amateurs vs those of the new professionals, how else can we or should we judge? If I've understood you correctly, you're saying that the club achieved EFL status because of its giantkilling acts, some incidentally a long time ago. At best that is to confuse causation with correlation. At worst, it stretches credibility to its absolute limit, for me anyway. In reality, surely there are a whole host of reasons why it was eventually promoted, not least by the strong foundations laid by Dos off the pitch, including his financial input, as well as being an exceptionally fine manager? That was ultimately built on by Matt: the right man at the right time who made some very astute signings, blending them together into a highly successful team. Would promotion have been achieved with professionals rather than "amateurs" running the club? There's no way of knowing. It's quite possible, of course, that promotion would have come earlier with professionals. Would the club still be in the EFL if "amateurs" had been running it for the last three seasons? Again, there's no way of knowing. However, I would suggest relegation was overwhelmingly the product of the managers' (especially Matt's) performances and the size of their playing budgets with other factors such as strength of the competition and luck with injuries also playing a part. So, in answer to your question "how else can we or should we judge?", I don't believe we realistically can make an objective assessment because of different circumstances in play at different times. None of the above, by the way, is in any way to denigrate the contributions of the club's wonderful volunteers which help make it special to so many. One final point. Given your assertion that Directors have been parachuted in was demonstrated to be false, what faith can those of us not "in the know" place in other statements you make about events off the pitch?
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