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Post by Amber Aleman on Mar 17, 2008 22:56:19 GMT
Ernie Howe's record during our last eleven league games is W1D2L8.
Ian Hazel resigned eleven league games into this season. And his record over those eleven matches? W1D2L8.
I'm not saying that Ernie should resign: a change of manager with almost three-quarters of the season to go makes more sense than a change at the fag-end of a season. And Ernie should probably be given the opportunity, as his predecessor did, to rebuild the team during the close season. But anybody who thinks that EH has so far been a better manager for us than IH needs to take a close look at the records!
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Post by Andy K on Mar 17, 2008 23:46:59 GMT
There's obviously a lot of bitterness to IH, because we were a mid table team when he started, and we were rooted to the bottom when he resigned. AA sums it up with his stats. No improvement has been made. I don't think things have got worse though (as if they could actually get much worse), but without trying to irritate anyone on here, the only way is up.
I can't see us getting any points until 12th April when we host Welling. But then again there is no one reason why we are in this position. Not EH. Not IH. Not any single player. Its the whole combination of events, players leaving who 'didn't have the right attitude', some terrible luck, some questionable choices by the management.
I do hope rebuilding is done and we make a decent challenge next year. It would be nice to be looking at us at the top half of a table, which is something that has not happened since the days of John Rains. This must be the aim of all concerned at the club. On a personal note, I don't think I could take a season like this again, its literally drained most of the spirit out of me.
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tonyd
1st team Player
Posts: 1,494
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Post by tonyd on Mar 18, 2008 7:30:07 GMT
On a personal note, I don't think I could take a season like this again, its literally drained most of the spirit out of me. Like many non-league club supporters I have dual allegiance, having been supporting both the Palace and U's since 1967. I'm sure many who give it all to the U's will think that's particularly lightweight, but it does have 2 advantages. First, when things are going badly for one there's a chance of the other doing well to pick you up. Secondly, like most Palace supporters, going through a season where you get a weekly hammering is something I've learned to live with. As every Palace fan knows, there's always the next seaeson . . . .
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bh
1st team Player
Come on you Us
Posts: 1,575
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Post by bh on Mar 18, 2008 13:42:51 GMT
Never mind M8!
Palace and Us, HELP!!!
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markf
Top Performer
Posts: 3,205
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Post by markf on Mar 18, 2008 17:12:14 GMT
TD, my other team is Fulham, will it be a double-wammie?
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markf
Top Performer
Posts: 3,205
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Post by markf on Mar 18, 2008 17:21:17 GMT
I certainly see mileage in PD. His record at the club is excellent & from what I could see, did things the right way. There is a fine line between being a disciplinarian & being dictatorial.
I once ref's PD on a Sunday morning & was impressed with the way he coached those around him while playing.
This was mainly dealing with youngsters though & he is not tested with "senior" players as far as I am aware. Still, there would only be one way to find out.
However, EH is the manager at present & is such speculation abit unfair on him?
I know where I stand on the matter (see previous posts - have you worked it out yet OS?) but we should respect the fact that EH is our manager.
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medibot
1st team Player
Posts: 1,341
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Post by medibot on Mar 18, 2008 17:36:14 GMT
Something i have picked up is that EH is clearly a proud man and that though he should be given a crack at the Ryman League with a chance to start recruiting players without the impending doom putting them off there is a chance he will see this years relegation as a failure and resign on principle.
Then it would certainly be worth giving PD a ring.
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Post by manchesteru on Mar 18, 2008 19:03:13 GMT
Let's be honest here, Ernie had an impossible job on his hands when he took over at the end of October/beginning of November. We were already clear at the bottom of the table, with just 5 points to our name, and none since September 1st. In my mind, we were already far down the road to relegation when he took over. True, some of the football in the last 5 months has been beyond shocking (Bognor being the biggest and worst example I think) but Ernie did inject something that resembled hope. It could also be argued that some of the way he has handled some of the players who've been in his squad this season does leave alot to be desired, but at the same time his reaction to certain players has been more than justified.
This coming summer will be crucial to the long-term future of Sutton United FC (possibly more so than the summer of 2004). Of course it's in the clubs long-term interests to get out of the Ryman League ASAP, and there needs to be a significant squad overhaul if we are to do so. I like to think Ernie can be the man to do it, but at the same time the people who run the club should be ready in case it doesn't happen, and they need to have a set time-frame. A repeat of the start of this season will be beyond disastrous. We can easily end up stagnating in the Ryman (like Margate) or potentially falling even further (like Carshalton and Redbridge).
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Post by os on Mar 18, 2008 20:06:20 GMT
The thing is this is where it gets complicated, the bottom line is money and how much a club can or are willing to spend on a squad plus management? The amount our club can afford is about the bare minimum needed to keep a club at Connie Sth level. A managers and teams performance can only be measured against that budget, overperforming only probably means connie sth midtable whereas underperforming means relegation to the Ryman. The Ryman is a damn difficult league to get out of because you nearly always meet at least a couple of these financially backed clubs spending more than anyone else or maybe a club like AFC with a large fanbase.
We cannot afford to underperform in the Ryman or it could be Carshalton all over again, we really should be making the playoffs and thats where the management decisions make all the difference. Can EH build a team to do that? Or would someone like PD blood young kids to do the job and what are the risks involved? If you choose EH (or similar manger) with our budget maybe we come back up via the playoffs and cling on to a connie sth place? If we go the PD route its a massive gamble with the club, if he can do what he did at reserve level then we could end up doing really well on our budget but we could end up getting hammered in the Ryman.
As supporters its really frustrating and demoralising but it must be very difficult for decision makers at the club as well. I know that they will make those decisions in the best interest of the club and I shall be back next season in the Ryman to give the team and management my full backing whatever they choose to do?
Yes its been a desperate season, probably the most painful I can remember but success will taste all the sweeter when it comes to those who endured this and did not turn their backs. If we lose 8-0 Saturday I am still going to Stortford and will put up with their 'going down taunts'!
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spark
Newbie
gravedigger's understudy
Posts: 53
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Post by spark on Mar 19, 2008 9:01:13 GMT
Thankyou for the imput to the original suggestion. I am with Mark F that Ernie is the manager and needs all the support he can get. However, being a realist I would like a contingency plan in place if the partnership ends for what ever reason. Option 1. If PD is interested (and we won't find out until someone contacts him) a position of Director of Football would be ideal to bring Phil back into the frame, with a view to oversee all levels from Youth to First team. As we all know PD knows when a player can be pushed upstairs and also when not!! Working in partnership with the 1st team manager Phil knows who's who, and who can cut-it at 1st team level, and more importantly who's shows the potential to make it through the ranks from youth to 1st team. Option 2. If things did not work out for the manager we will have an confident replacement already in place .
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Post by intheknow on Mar 19, 2008 16:57:18 GMT
Hi Let me explain further to Tonyd, When IH resigned these message boards were full names who were managers at other clubs touted as possible sutton managers, No new names. There were lots of applications, so there was no shortage of people wanting to come to Sutton. The club has a very good rep in local football circles. Right lets look at EH record. Within a week it is announced he was to receive the largest Budget any manager at Sutton. Where are these players? Who has he signed? Last game saw 6 of the squad who were in ressie before EH arrived! No work on his part there. How many quaility players have left? Since he arrived, Sutton have only won THREE games out of TWENTYTHREE games in the league. This speaks volumes about his record and please dont blame it on IH. EH has had the time and money to make improvements but has failed to deliver. So your comment about coaches v player Knowledge is flawed. " I don't know if EH will take us straight back up, but I'd back him against any "coach" who is long on tactics and short on player knowledge." |
As for new (unknown) managers It wont happen because Chairman/committes wont gamble!
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taz
Top Performer
Posts: 3,760
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Post by taz on Mar 19, 2008 17:36:30 GMT
TBH, EH has tried to get players in. Very hard indeed. But for one reason or another, fortune either conspired against him or he didn't think the players he spoke to were worth the risk (Ian Selley for example).
Getting some bloke in on, say, £500pw and having him stroll around, do feck all and collect his pay every week is not going to keep you up. You've got nothing better than you already had, just at twice, three times the wage.
Personally, I don't think telling all the press that we'd given him a nice bit of bunce to spend did him many favours either.
Then people know you're desperate AND have money to spend!
And I hardly think that given EH's somewhat no nonsense approach, he's going to be impressed calling up a potential recruit and the first words out of their mouth are not "Hello" but "How much then?" or "I want £x a week"!!!
He should be given a chance next season. Clean slate & allow him to bring in the players he feels can do job.
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Post by Del on Mar 19, 2008 17:40:05 GMT
I didn't read anyone on here complaining that we had selected the wrong manager(apart from me) at the time.I believe its a given that players are not attracted to a team who are likely to be relegated.Next season is different.One thing Ernie did was get Basingstoke straight back up and i believe he is working towards that end at the moment.
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Post by sallycat on Mar 24, 2008 10:30:45 GMT
I think the question is more likely to be whether Ernie wants to stay at this club!
Personally, I'm willing to give him a chance. For the most part, I admire his attitude. He isn't a miracle worker, but who is? When he came in, the players were openly saying they were unhappy; they had no confidence and didn't even want to try any more. It's a bit unfair to expect someone to come in and turn that around just like that.
OK, fair enough. He didn't do the job he was meant to do and his record is as bad as Hazel's, but looking at the teams we played against in the first half of the season compared to the second, perhaps that isn't quite fair. We had a lot of our "easy" games early on. Not all of course- Bognor and Dorchester were the chances we missed, obviously. But still. I'm always of the opinion that a manager should be given a "clean slate" to work from, i.e. the beginning of a season not halfway through when things are already dire, before being dismissed by fans. That's my personal opinion of course and doesn't agree with everyone's, but very few managers could have got anything out of the club this season. You can tell by the club's reaction with finances etc that we were absolutely desperate and knew that it would not take much for it to be all over.
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