3G pitch

[timall]

Jan 20, 2018 20:06:14 GMT garethl said:

Jan 20, 2018 15:58:00 GMT timall said:

Nope I wouldn't.

The club has turned down promotion before and I don't think we should be bullied into tearing up the pitch this time around either. The decision to remove the current surface would be a big financial hit, and as has been stated, goes against the community nature of the facilities we have adopted over the last few years. In my view we should be prepared to explore every avenue to challenge the rule about such pitches, given they are used in so many competitions, and at higher levels than the football league.

Glad it's not my decision to make though as I'm sure my position would be considered anathema by many.

Bullied? Sorry but we knew the rules when we converted the pitch. Whilst it was probably safe to assume the league would follow at some stage (given the higher levels at which it is perfectly acceptable as you point out) and that we wouldn't be putting up what is looking increasingly like a promotion challenge so soon, we have signed an undertaking to take the promotion and play on grass if it comes to it (or be relegated!). The club have been very clear in saying we'd take the promotion IF it comes so not sure there is any decision as such to make (on taking or turning down any promotion).

"If it comes to it..."

All I am saying is we should explore every avenue first. I don't think my view is radically different to Bruce, or Paul's. In fact I think BT were good in allowing the argument in favour of 3G to be heard.

My reply was to someone that said "you would take anything to get that chance...". I don't agree. There are plenty of "things" I don't think we should take, so "anything" is impractical and unrealistic.

It is a very tough decision, and on numerous occasions I have very specifically said I have trust that the business management of this club has been seen to be very sound in the past, and I have faith they will make any decisions with the best of will for the long term future of this club, something that is very dear to me.

Those that argue that a decision may set the club back 20 years may have a point, and be correct (in hindsight). Yet as a counter to that (again with hindsight) the opposite may equally be true. Taking promotion, and scrapping the pitch, may lead to a situation of lower revenues and increased costs. Without a business model that supports the long term survival of the club who is to say that is too great a risk? The list of clubs that have got into difficulties and either gone out of business, or had to accept a meaningful drop down the (non) leagues to survive is a real and growing one. Given the proud and lengthy history of this club steering clear of this possibility is, at least in my mind, just as important as the dream of league football.

I trust the management off and on the pitch to say what is right, but also to do what is right. We have been in the situation before where league position and subsequent promotion didn't happen. We need to be strong in defending our position again, and I am sure we will be.

[Andy K]

The best argument was weather conditions were poor yesterday and because of the pitch, no one noticed. The arguments against 3G are getting weaker and weaker.

[Big Al]

Jan 21, 2018 9:07:42 GMT Andy K said:

The best argument was weather conditions were poor yesterday and because of the pitch, no one noticed. The arguments against 3G are getting weaker and weaker.

I don't disagree but that's not really the debate.  The fact is that rules relating to pitches may be changed in the future but it looks unlikely they will be for next season.  The question therefore is more what the club would do in the event we qualify for promotion.  Bruce's statement seems pretty indicative.

[backhome2016]

This is a difficult one... who doesn't want to embrace promotion to League 2, but...

With that comes the 3G removal with the loss of extra revenue, the loss of the 'community club' model, the loss of GGL/Knights as a seven-day a week football hub...

I believe to lose all of that would be waving bye-bye to the DNA of what SUFC has become. The pessimist in me sees nothing but problems with a promotion resulting in a grass pitch (with the loss of income and facility being exacerbated by an increase in outgoings being spent on player's wages, fees, additional costs).

Yes, I do trust the club's management to make the right call. Maybe the realistic chance of promotion this season has come a season too early for us.

[Del]

I know we have covered this on a few occasions but i don't think we would want to remove the 3G for just one season bearing in mind the other comments.
Surely it would make more sense to ground share for 1 season .

[Jared]

We've got to do whatever is in the best interest of the Football club. The 3G pitch has been phenomenal in terms of community outreach and income, and despite my personal reservations it's been one of the best things this club has done (plus as an exile I appreciate the virtual guarantee of match day action). However the Football League is an opportunity to great to spurn. As much as the 3G pitch has helped reach out to the community, our on pitch success combined with cheap tickets have been the main reason behind the rise in crowds. For the first time in decades we don't have to tell people where we are, people are coming to us. Promotion to the Football League will only increase this, promote the name of the club. Turning promotion down will give the impression of an unambitous club. We will lose fans, and players. And not to mention become a laughing stock. We would never recover.

I trust Bruce and Dos when they say there is a contingency plan. They have the best interest of the club at the forefront of everything they do for SUFC

[amberfc]

My only worry about ground sharing next season is that we may only be in the football league for 1 season in some peoples lifetime. What a shame if they couldn't make it to games because we had to play them at some obscure ground...

It's a tough one! But we should do everything humanly possible to get into League Two and keep fans and the community content.

Blooming crazy to think this is the biggest problem facing our football club at this moment in time. I'd much prefer these problems over the ones we were faced with when we were relegated from the Conference South!!!

[Amber Aleman]

We can safely assume that this issue has been discussed in some depth by the club's management committee, and that there are contingency plans in place. Dos himself has alluded to such plans via his Twitter account. There may be good reasons why details aren't being made public about what is, after all, still a hypothetical scenario. (There could be commercial implications or simply a wish not to set hares running.) But it would be surprising if behind-the-scenes discussions haven't also been taking place between the relevant parties.

If a club with a 3G pitch is faced with a stark choice between ripping up the pitch (and its successful business model) or being relegated, that would create an embarrassing story for the two Leagues involved. There has to be a third way.

[Andy K]

Jan 21, 2018 12:18:23 GMT Amber Aleman said:

We can safely assume that this issue has been discussed in some depth by the club's management committee, and that there are contingency plans in place. Dos himself has alluded to such plans via his Twitter account. There may be good reasons why details aren't being made public about what is, after all, still a hypothetical scenario. (There could be commercial implications or simply a wish not to set hares running.) But it would be surprising if behind-the-scenes discussions haven't also been taking place between the relevant parties.

If a club with a 3G pitch is faced with a stark choice between ripping up the pitch (and its successful business model) or being relegated, that would create an embarrassing story for the two Leagues involved. There has to be a third way.

Not disagreeing with you but some of the post on here seem to assume that the club hasn't thought about it. Quite funny really. Bless em

[kpinwp]

Jan 21, 2018 12:18:23 GMT Amber Aleman said:

We can safely assume that this issue has been discussed in some depth by the club's management committee, and that there are contingency plans in place. Dos himself has alluded to such plans via his Twitter account. There may be good reasons why details aren't being made public about what is, after all, still a hypothetical scenario. (There could be commercial implications or simply a wish not to set hares running.) But it would be surprising if behind-the-scenes discussions haven't also been taking place between the relevant parties.

If a club with a 3G pitch is faced with a stark choice between ripping up the pitch (and its successful business model) or being relegated, that would create an embarrassing story for the two Leagues involved. There has to be a third way.

I'm very much of the opinion that the club can only 'work' within the rules as exist, and the club will have contingency plans based around those rules.

But,as Amber Aleman points out, if the league were to actually impose those rules upon us in the event of promotion, they may not be doing themselves any favours. They would be seen to be undermining the community friendly business structure of a small but developing club. We are merely acting as an early-adopter of what will inevitably become more widely used technology, ie, 3G. That would cast the league in a poor light and I can see no actual gain for them as a counter-balance to that.

[skillspaybills]

It's a tough decision but one I believe we will get right.

The playing staff deserve their chance to play in the Football League as individuals (so much talent who could/should be in FL) and I hope as a collective by winning the league or playoffs.

Also the backroom staff and coaching team. They are good enough to be in Football League and their attention to detail puts a lot of other higher league managers to shame.

I'm rambling but not much else I can add to this thread tbh.

[Andy K]

I recall a thread called 3g debate. I remember a lot of "I can't add much to this thread" on their either. Kudos to skillspaysbills for admitting it.

[dof]

.....a very interesting forum on the pro and cons of grass v 3G pitches I am sure all of us could put up a strong case for the opposite view. Having supported SUFC all my life would love to see Sutton play in Div 2 BUT when I turn up at GGL and see all those very footballers some only look about 6 thoroughly enjoying themselves on our current pitch, this could never happen on a grass pitch, what happens to them? Our last grass pitch was a very good example of why 3G pitches are the future. The times I have driven up (2 hour drive) to find the match called off as you enter the ground.....!!!
The point that has not been mentioned is cost...who pays......do you get cash/grant from the EFA? Having spent half a million laying the 3G ( and what a benefit that has been ) what is the cost of replacing it with grass, Eastleigh would know!! and with the added bonus of games called off.
Now on the other hand...................!!!!!!!!!!!

[Del]

Hopefully it won't come to it but i seem to remember hearing Dos say that it wouldn't cost as much to relay to grass as the drainage was already in.

[KingBob]

When is the next EFL meeting on 3G? Thought there was going to be one before Christmas.

I have not heard what Bruce said to BT Sport, but surely he is playing to the media here by having to return to grass.
Previously it was trying to win EFL over regarding the financial problems the lower divisions clubs are under.

I understand it is only the Premiership and Championship leagues are against 3G pitches, divisions 1 & 2 are apparently all in favour of it.
But it must be realised there still a huge difference in the skill set between Grass and 3G, it has narrowed and more is still to be achieved, but those that go along with this argument have experience to back it up and of course they run the league and any confrontation to their knowledge of the game must be resisted.

Some still argue top flight football should be only played on grass, perhaps all of the EFL is top flight, but that argument went out with soft leather balls and boots, this is all about football surviving for the future, the lower divisional teams cannot be allowed to go under due to problems other than skill or fan base, something must be done, it is very much a supporters game as well.