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Post by davethegrave on Jul 8, 2018 20:21:35 GMT
Why is it compulsory?
And no I haven't been to many away games. But surely they'll all have to comply - or are we a special case?
What trouble or injury has there been at Gander Green Lane?
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Post by davethegrave on Jul 8, 2018 20:24:02 GMT
Actually no, the Shoebox can be used ! My one little victory !! There are no crash barriers in front of the shoe box so surely we can stand against the fence. |
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Post by sallycat on Jul 8, 2018 20:37:02 GMT
Why is it compulsory? And no I haven't been to many away games. But surely they'll all have to comply - or are we a special case? What trouble or injury has there been at Gander Green Lane? 1. I'm not an expert on football ground safety, but I'm betting this is based on research and past incidents. It won't be an arbitrary rule made up to annoy you, anyway. I'll tell you what, since few of us are experts in this subject, why don't you download the Guide and do a little research yourself? It's free! www.safetyatsportsgrounds.org.uk/publications/green-guide2. Of course they all have to comply. You can't seriously think SUFC is being randomly persecuted? 3. Do you have a smoke alarm at home? But why, what lethal fires have there been at your house? Do you take your car for an MOT? But why, what's wrong with it? Do you look before you cross the road? But why, what injury have you previously sustained from crossing the road? I don't know about you, but I would 100 times rather the club takes preventative action to avoid trouble or injury, rather than allow it to happen and then lock the stable door after the horse has bolted. Some people in this thread have remarked that the rules are over the top and restrictive and a bit health-and-safety-gone-mad. I actually don't necessarily disagree with that but like I said I am not an expert in ground safety so I'm not gonna judge the decisions of those who are, not until I know exactly why those decisions have been made. This could be a poorly judged decision but the point is it has been made with the intention of keeping people safe and the club is currently working on a compromise, which seems like an eminently sensible approach so let's just wait and see what that turns out to be. |
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Post by Del on Jul 8, 2018 20:52:49 GMT
The fact that Dave suggested he had one little victory gives me the impression that its the HSE at the London Borough of Sutton who have been making these rules and maybe complaints should be directed at them.
What actually astounds me about all this is the fact that we recently played Arsenal with no problems in front of a full house and what was good on that evening isn't good now !
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Post by VCLXI on Jul 8, 2018 21:10:34 GMT
Why is it compulsory? And no I haven't been to many away games. But surely they'll all have to comply - or are we a special case? What trouble or injury has there been at Gander Green Lane? 1. I'm not an expert on football ground safety, but I'm betting this is based on research and past incidents. It won't be an arbitrary rule made up to annoy you, anyway. I'll tell you what, since few of us are experts in this subject, why don't you download the Guide and do a little research yourself? It's free! www.safetyatsportsgrounds.org.uk/publications/green-guide2. Of course they all have to comply. You can't seriously think SUFC is being randomly persecuted? 3. Do you have a smoke alarm at home? But why, what lethal fires have there been at your house? Do you take your car for an MOT? But why, what's wrong with it? Do you look before you cross the road? But why, what injury have you previously sustained from crossing the road? I don't know about you, but I would 100 times rather the club takes preventative action to avoid trouble or injury, rather than allow it to happen and then lock the stable door after the horse has bolted. Some people in this thread have remarked that the rules are over the top and restrictive and a bit health-and-safety-gone-mad. I actually don't necessarily disagree with that but like I said I am not an expert in ground safety so I'm not gonna judge the decisions of those who are, not until I know exactly why those decisions have been made. This could be a poorly judged decision but the point is it has been made with the intention of keeping people safe and the club is currently working on a compromise, which seems like an eminently sensible approach so let's just wait and see what that turns out to be. To be perfectly honest, I don't think that I can add to anything with any purpose whatsoever that Sallycat has already said! |
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Post by davethegrave on Jul 8, 2018 21:23:22 GMT
Why is it compulsory? And no I haven't been to many away games. But surely they'll all have to comply - or are we a special case? What trouble or injury has there been at Gander Green Lane? 1. I'm not an expert on football ground safety, but I'm betting this is based on research and past incidents. It won't be an arbitrary rule made up to annoy you, anyway. I'll tell you what, since few of us are experts in this subject, why don't you download the Guide and do a little research yourself? It's free! www.safetyatsportsgrounds.org.uk/publications/green-guide2. Of course they all have to comply. You can't seriously think SUFC is being randomly persecuted? 3. Do you have a smoke alarm at home? But why, what lethal fires have there been at your house? Do you take your car for an MOT? But why, what's wrong with it? Do you look before you cross the road? But why, what injury have you previously sustained from crossing the road? I don't know about you, but I would 100 times rather the club takes preventative action to avoid trouble or injury, rather than allow it to happen and then lock the stable door after the horse has bolted. Some people in this thread have remarked that the rules are over the top and restrictive and a bit health-and-safety-gone-mad. I actually don't necessarily disagree with that but like I said I am not an expert in ground safety so I'm not gonna judge the decisions of those who are, not until I know exactly why those decisions have been made. This could be a poorly judged decision but the point is it has been made with the intention of keeping people safe and the club is currently working on a compromise, which seems like an eminently sensible approach so let's just wait and see what that turns out to be. You just said have I been to any away games as if we can lean on the barrier there. Where do you stand/sit? I like to be on the halfway line so I can see both ends equally. So I'll have to be further from the action. No - I'm definitely not happy about this. It really angers me. It spoils my enjoyment of something I've been doing on (and a bit off) for over 50 years. |
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Post by os on Jul 8, 2018 22:14:21 GMT
1. I'm not an expert on football ground safety, but I'm betting this is based on research and past incidents. It won't be an arbitrary rule made up to annoy you, anyway. I'll tell you what, since few of us are experts in this subject, why don't you download the Guide and do a little research yourself? It's free! www.safetyatsportsgrounds.org.uk/publications/green-guide2. Of course they all have to comply. You can't seriously think SUFC is being randomly persecuted? 3. Do you have a smoke alarm at home? But why, what lethal fires have there been at your house? Do you take your car for an MOT? But why, what's wrong with it? Do you look before you cross the road? But why, what injury have you previously sustained from crossing the road? I don't know about you, but I would 100 times rather the club takes preventative action to avoid trouble or injury, rather than allow it to happen and then lock the stable door after the horse has bolted. Some people in this thread have remarked that the rules are over the top and restrictive and a bit health-and-safety-gone-mad. I actually don't necessarily disagree with that but like I said I am not an expert in ground safety so I'm not gonna judge the decisions of those who are, not until I know exactly why those decisions have been made. This could be a poorly judged decision but the point is it has been made with the intention of keeping people safe and the club is currently working on a compromise, which seems like an eminently sensible approach so let's just wait and see what that turns out to be. You just said have I been to any away games as if we can lean on the barrier there. Where do you stand/sit? I like to be on the halfway line so I can see both ends equally. So I'll have to be further from the action. No - I'm definitely not happy about this. It really angers me. It spoils my enjoyment of something I've been doing on (and a bit off) for over 50 years. Unfortunately although I like to have a moan, as others have said its simply not the clubs fault, they have to impose what the little man with a clip board from the local council tells them too. I am certain that no one wanted the reduction in ground capacity that this brings.. |
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Post by davethegrave on Jul 8, 2018 22:21:01 GMT
I'm not saying it is the club's fault. So it's the Local Council's fault? I bet whoever the jobsworth is he's got no idea what goes on down at Gander Green Lane. I bet he's some sad little bastard who hasn't got a life.
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Post by sallycat on Jul 8, 2018 23:09:45 GMT
And I bet he or she (or more likely they) know(s) more than you or I about football ground safety.
I work in regulation myself (in a very different field) and one of the biggest barriers we face is people who think we tell them what to do for fun or some sort of power trip. Those people don't actually know what they're talking about because they're not the ones who are experts in safety but they think they know better for some reason. We've had several cases recently where people have died or been seriously injured because someone thought we were "jobsworths" for telling them to put certain safety measures in place and they didn't bother to do so. We have had to prosecute in a few cases.
By the way, my comment about away matches had nothing to do with leaning on barriers, it was in response to your complaint about being too far from the pitch at our ground. Off the top of my head the only away ground we visited last season - and I have been to all of them - where we could get closer to the pitch than we now can at our ground was Guiseley. Personally I think it's more important to have an unrestricted view anyway rather than being close to the pitch but maybe that's just me.
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Post by mca on Jul 9, 2018 4:54:10 GMT
And I bet he or she (or more likely they) know(s) more than you or I about football ground safety. I work in regulation myself (in a very different field) and one of the biggest barriers we face is people who think we tell them what to do for fun or some sort of power trip. Those people don't actually know what they're talking about because they're not the ones who are experts in safety but they think they know better for some reason. We've had several cases recently where people have died or been seriously injured because someone thought we were "jobsworths" for telling them to put certain safety measures in place and they didn't bother to do so. We have had to prosecute in a few cases. By the way, my comment about away matches had nothing to do with leaning on barriers, it was in response to your complaint about being too far from the pitch at our ground. Off the top of my head the only away ground we visited last season - and I have been to all of them - where we could get closer to the pitch than we now can at our ground was Guiseley. Personally I think it's more important to have an unrestricted view anyway rather than being close to the pitch but maybe that's just me. Nobody is blaming the club, or course they wouldn't choose to do this, but you appear to be saying we should stop moaning because whoever made the decision will know what they're doing. This will make watching the game masssivly less enjoyable for the 3 kids 1 bring with me, hopefully not to the point where they don't want to go anymore but I don't know. I cannot think of a single reason why people can't stand against a fence to watch. Not at this level of football, there is no danger. I've never said "Health and safety gone mad"about anything, but this is bonkers and pointless |
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Post by sallycat on Jul 9, 2018 6:36:49 GMT
No I'm not saying that. We're all entitled to have a moan. I'm not happy about it either: I don't think any of us are. In fact, I even said in an earlier post in this thread that it may well be the wrong decision. It's just that none of us actually knows the full reasoning behind it and since some people seemed to think the authorities in question made the decision for a laugh (rather than because it was, you know, their job) and that it was unfair, I thought it best to point out that the rules are there for a reason and every sports ground has to comply.
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Post by mca on Jul 9, 2018 6:50:26 GMT
No I'm not saying that. We're all entitled to have a moan. I'm not happy about it either: I don't think any of us are. In fact, I even said in an earlier post in this thread that it may well be the wrong decision. It's just that none of us actually knows the full reasoning behind it and since some people seemed to think the authorities in question made the decision for a laugh (rather than because it was, you know, their job) and that it was unfair, I thought it best to point out that the rules are there for a reason and every sports ground has to comply. Of course, I don't think for 1 second that whoever made this decision did it for reasons other than they think make our match day safer, but i honestly can't think of a single reason why standing against a sturdy pitchside fence is dangerous at non league level. If it's your field, maybe you have a better insight and could hazard a guess because I'm baffled. |
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Post by garethl on Jul 9, 2018 7:19:16 GMT
No I'm not saying that. We're all entitled to have a moan. I'm not happy about it either: I don't think any of us are. In fact, I even said in an earlier post in this thread that it may well be the wrong decision. It's just that none of us actually knows the full reasoning behind it and since some people seemed to think the authorities in question made the decision for a laugh (rather than because it was, you know, their job) and that it was unfair, I thought it best to point out that the rules are there for a reason and every sports ground has to comply. Of course, I don't think for 1 second that whoever made this decision did it for reasons other than they think make our match day safer, but i honestly can't think of a single reason why standing against a sturdy pitchside fence is dangerous at non league level. If it's your field, maybe you have a better insight and could hazard a guess because I'm baffled. The decision is absolutely absurd. Terrible for younger kids in particular. Hopefully a solution can be found quickly. |
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Post by sallycat on Jul 9, 2018 7:23:24 GMT
Well, with the little I know about sports ground safety, any specifics I guess at are unlikely to be correct. I would guess, however, that this is based on past incidents where people have sustained injuries in other grounds with the same type of fence.
One thing worth remembering when we think this sort of thing doesn't happen very often, is that this sort of thing doesn't happen very often because we have all these regulations and restrictions in place.
And yeah, maybe it is absurd. I honestly wish I knew the specifics so I could have a properly informed opinion on whether it is indeed absurd.
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Post by mca on Jul 9, 2018 8:30:20 GMT
Well, with the little I know about sports ground safety, any specifics I guess at are unlikely to be correct. I would guess, however, that this is based on past incidents where people have sustained injuries in other grounds with the same type of fence. One thing worth remembering when we think this sort of thing doesn't happen very often, is that this sort of thing doesn't happen very often because we have all these regulations and restrictions in place. And yeah, maybe it is absurd. I honestly wish I knew the specifics so I could have a properly informed opinion on whether it is indeed absurd. Fair play to you for trying to put across an understanding of the thought process behind a decision like this, hope you don't feel like you're being backed Into a corner. I'm really fed up with this though. I'm sure there's loads of tweaks that go on without us realising on H&S grounds, I think the difference here is that it will have a massive impact on the way, kids especially, enjoy the game. I almost feel like we've got the wrong end of the stick and someone will say "of course kids can still go pitchside, we didn't mean that". I'd be less annoyed if we were told we wouldnt be allowed in without hats to avoid possible sunburn. |
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