trev
1st team skipper
In Matt We Trust
Posts: 2,477 
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Post by trev on Jul 9, 2018 13:51:18 GMT
Whichever way you look at it, mark's not sitting on the fence.
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Post by sallycat on Jul 9, 2018 13:58:43 GMT
Yes Mark but... actually the car thing makes a decent analogy.
My husband received a letter a couple of years ago saying cars of the particular make, model and age that he owned had a manufacture flaw that could lead to serious injury. All cars in that group were being recalled for examination and the manufacturers advised my husband not to use his car until this had been done.
Most car accidents are caused by driver error and are difficult to prevent because an individual is usually at fault and you can't ever eliminate human error completely.
Our case is more like my husband's car. A real risk has been identified, because the exact same thing has been shown to cause accidents/injuries. This is a very specific thing that can be prevented or controlled by having that part of the car checked/replaced or by not leaning on the fence.
It's very unfortunate in our case because the nature of the ground means that a relatively high proportion of the crowd stand by the fence. I think you may well be quite right about it being bollocks, depending on whether the amount of force required to collapse that particular fence could realistically be generated by the number of people who can actually fit behind ours. It will be good to see what solutions the club is coming up with.
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Post by Amber Aleman on Jul 9, 2018 14:05:30 GMT
Let's hope that the solution that Dave alluded to is found before GGL gets some of its bigger attendances of the season. (I'm looking ahead to Wrexham on 22 Sept and Barnet on 13 October.)
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Post by Stewart on Jul 9, 2018 14:38:35 GMT
Just to clarify, the issue is simply around the perceived strength and appropriateness of the fence. The exact same type of fence has collapsed elsewhere under crowd pressure and, one way or another, we need to demonstrate that risks are eliminated or controlled to the satisfaction of the safety authorities. Woking v Aldershot? |
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tonyd
1st team Player
Posts: 1,496
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Post by tonyd on Jul 9, 2018 16:19:11 GMT
Any one who has worked in financial services and suffered a compliance visit from the FCA (actually FSA when I was working!) will be aware of the syndrome that they have to find an issue on every visit. If they do not, they feel they are not doing their job.
No doubt the club will come up with a solution for the fence and on a subsequent vivit the H&S people will find something else. It is always that way. Last time it was the wall at the back of the terrace, this time it's the fence at the front. And so it goes.
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Post by sallycat on Jul 9, 2018 16:45:42 GMT
Any one who has worked in financial services and suffered a compliance visit from the FCA (actually FSA when I was working!) will be aware of the syndrome that they have to find an issue on every visit. If they do not, they feel they are not doing their job. No doubt the club will come up with a solution for the fence and on a subsequent vivit the H&S people will find something else. It is always that way. Last time it was the wall at the back of the terrace, this time it's the fence at the front. And so it goes. The area of regulation I work in has a very large health and safety component (in fact we recently took over the HSE's role within our field) which makes me in part a health and safety inspector, and I can assure you that this is absolutely untrue. Maybe for finance - I have no experience in the field so I'll bow to your superior knowledge there - but health and safety, not a chance. I can definitely see why you'd think so, however. I've inspected a number of places that always seem to have new issues cropping up each time. Partly this is because standards change over time (in light of new information/incidents, pressure from other bodies, etc) and partly it's because the recipients of the inspection have been focusing so hard on the area they've been told to change that they let other things go. I see it a lot and they sometimes do get a bit exasperated and I understand why. The reality is that health and safety inspectors much prefer to find nothing wrong. If we find nothing wrong then great, we just have to write up a report to say everything is fine and dandy. But each problem we find increases our workload exponentially. First we have to tell them there's a problem, which is not fun because they often argue and get defensive. The write up is much harder because if you don't spell out exactly why it's not good enough, you will get challenged, which is more work. Then if it's a particularly bad problem and further action needs to be taken, the workload increases and increases. One particularly awful one for me resulted in three years of hard work. Personally, every time I spot a problem my heart sinks and I always ask myself if I can get away with ignoring it. Sadly the answer is usually no, since my field involves vulnerable people, but I'll bet other health and safety people do the same. Sorry if I'm boring anyone, just wanted to give an insight into what happens on the other side. |
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markf
Top Performer
Posts: 3,324
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Post by markf on Jul 9, 2018 17:53:14 GMT
That may be the case with you Sal but the lbs guy has so far visited and firstly closed one section of terracing - since reopened - then another (at cr end) resulting in the need for a sterile area under the cr side cover even though there was a gate at the end of it and a natural sterile area the other side. Even though Aldershot brought 1200 fans to that end and they all safely left the ground.
Now he has enforced this no standing in flat areas. That's a drip, drip method if ever I
saw one. Next it will be something else.
It's bollocks
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Post by davethegrave on Jul 9, 2018 18:45:12 GMT
Whichever way you look at it, mark's not sitting on the fence. He's not allowed to - and of course there were times when this was allowed but it makes sense to stop it. Our main gripe is the distance. Why can't they make another fence either on the green area outside the pitch or inside the pitch closer to the pitch - preferably with rubber walls so that the players can't get hurt. And that is more of a danger - to the players. I remember going to Kingstonian (when they had a ground) with concrete walls. I've got a solution but we'll have to wait and see. We'll call it the GGL Walk and sing it going up and down in the walking area. They can't stop us walking in that (massively wide) area can they. Can they? As in Mark's words......... |
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Post by os on Jul 9, 2018 19:00:18 GMT
I think that hits the nail right on the head. I doubt LBS has any previous experience in dealing with sports venues,or any real knowledge of GGL. A jobsworthy with a clip board who does not get out of the office much. I don't think the decision actually helps anyone and only means that children and adults alike will have less room, and children will struggle to see anything. |
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Post by davef on Jul 9, 2018 19:03:37 GMT
Actually OS, that's a long way from the reality.
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Post by davethegrave on Jul 9, 2018 19:09:09 GMT
Actually Clive, that's a long way from the reality. And so is the pitch! |
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Post by Andy K on Jul 9, 2018 19:10:53 GMT
Even a "jobsworth with a clipboard" is a human being, who is probably under instructions from their superiors.
However silly it is from our view as regular supporters, and how frustrating it is for the club, it is what it is and we've got the right people in place to make the decision makers think twice about the path they've taken.
Vent spleen by all means but remember that in the scheme of things it will have bugger all impact.
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Post by os on Jul 9, 2018 19:14:42 GMT
Even a "jobsworth with a clipboard" is a human being, who is probably under instructions from their superiors. However silly it is from our view as regular supporters, and how frustrating it is for the club, it is what it is and we've got the right people in place to make the decision makers think twice about the path they've taken. Vent spleen by all means but remember that in the scheme of things it will have bugger all impact. Of course which is why I put my view here, no one is saying the guy with a clip board is not human. In my opinion (which I am entitled too) these changes actually make the ground less safe because it moves everyone behind the barriers, imagine if someone fell and hit their head on one?? Yes the decision is made but that does not have to make it sensible or right, and yes I choose to put my view here.. |
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markf
Top Performer
Posts: 3,324
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Post by markf on Jul 9, 2018 19:15:10 GMT
Blimey. Perhaps I am wrong. Billy has liked all my posts on the subject!
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billy
1st team skipper
Posts: 2,647
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Post by billy on Jul 9, 2018 19:19:20 GMT
Blimey. Perhaps I am wrong. Billy has liked all my posts on the subject! That's the bit i like,and i think you are right ! |
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