markf
Top Performer
Posts: 3,191
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Post by markf on Mar 17, 2021 12:21:43 GMT
Here's the post-match interview with the Chesterfield manager. Do I detect a whiff of sour grapes? Sour grapes?? No. Truthful answers to local journalists. History of a recent defeat at Stockport in very similar circumstances (clear refereeing error) may have been in his mind. He was complementary of yourself and diplomatically side stepped the question of your morally corrupt tendency to surround/pressurise the ref.I called foul straight away and I was 3 miles away!!! and with the proximity of the line couldn't understand why he didnt flag. If the situation was totally reversed (ie we had won 1-0 in the same circumstances) and having watched/listened to your managers input into the game from the touchline what do you feel his after match comments would have been, more crushed grapes, I guess. Oh and the stand roofs did appear curved without gaps at the rear wall. Complimentary maybe, with barbs, yes. Whenever a losing manager describes the oppo as direct you get an idea there is a sense of disapproval with such a style. He should remember how Chesterfield's winner came at Sutton. Long throw aimed at Denton that Hollis headed in. Pretty direct that but only used last night once Hollis was on the pitch. Can bet you're bottom dollar that if either he or Denton had started there would have been a barrage of directness from the home side. Some managers make me laugh. They seem to think the way they coach their team is the only or best way to play football. The NL is an unforgiving beast and fantastic passing moves isn't always the best way. A mix is needed along with desire, hard work and doing all the horrible stuff to a highly competent level. As a number of posters on the Spireites Forum have stated, Sutton did that stuff far better than the home side and deserved the win. Pretty football alone is not enough. As for morally corrupt, well from what I could see, your skipper wasn't slow in doing the exact same thing on a number of occasions. Ironically, he got booked himself before picking up an unfortunate injury. Not sure too much moral high ground can be taken there. As for the goal, how many times does a defender "bump" a forward and get away with it? Countless times throughout a match. In the second half last night our centre-half was grabbed around the waist and bundled to the ground taking him out of the defensive line as Chesterfield attacked. Thankfully, U's excellent organisation thwarted the danger. I didn't hear Mr Rowe mentioning that. But then, memory can be selective. Sutton won because they was the better side in all departments. But then we're little old non-league Sutton who aren't meant to turn up to the cathedrals of the former EFL clubs and get to deliver a decent sermon and have the last word with the Lord's Prayer too.
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Post by Andy K on Mar 17, 2021 12:55:10 GMT
If I recall rightly, Chesterfield forced one good save out of Bouzanis last night. Otherwise their attack was impotent (and to be fair I'd say that was more because of our defence that being critical to the talent they obviously have). Therefore Mr Rowe is gutted he didn't get a 0-0. For a decent team looking for a play off place, playing at home you shouldn't really be disappointed that you didn't get a no score draw!
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Post by sol on Mar 17, 2021 14:06:47 GMT
Sour grapes?? No. Truthful answers to local journalists. History of a recent defeat at Stockport in very similar circumstances (clear refereeing error) may have been in his mind. He was complementary of yourself and diplomatically side stepped the question of your morally corrupt tendency to surround/pressurise the ref.I called foul straight away and I was 3 miles away!!! and with the proximity of the line couldn't understand why he didnt flag. If the situation was totally reversed (ie we had won 1-0 in the same circumstances) and having watched/listened to your managers input into the game from the touchline what do you feel his after match comments would have been, more crushed grapes, I guess. Oh and the stand roofs did appear curved without gaps at the rear wall. Complimentary maybe, with barbs, yes. Whenever a losing manager describes the oppo as direct you get an idea there is a sense of disapproval with such a style. He should remember how Chesterfield's winner came at Sutton. Long throw aimed at Denton that Hollis headed in. Pretty direct that but only used last night once Hollis was on the pitch. Can bet you're bottom dollar that if either he or Denton had started there would have been a barrage of directness from the home side. Some managers make me laugh. They seem to think the way they coach their team is the only or best way to play football. The NL is an unforgiving beast and fantastic passing moves isn't always the best way. A mix is needed along with desire, hard work and doing all the horrible stuff to a highly competent level. As a number of posters on the Spireites Forum have stated, Sutton did that stuff far better than the home side and deserved the win. Pretty football alone is not enough. As for morally corrupt, well from what I could see, your skipper wasn't slow in doing the exact same thing on a number of occasions. Ironically, he got booked himself before picking up an unfortunate injury. Not sure too much moral high ground can be taken there. As for the goal, how many times does a defender "bump" a forward and get away with it? Countless times throughout a match. In the second half last night our centre-half was grabbed around the waist and bundled to the ground taking him out of the defensive line as Chesterfield attacked. Thankfully, U's excellent organisation thwarted the danger. I didn't hear Mr Rowe mentioning that. But then, memory can be selective. Sutton won because they was the better side in all departments. But then we're little old non-league Sutton who aren't meant to turn up to the cathedrals of the former EFL clubs and get to deliver a decent sermon and have the last word with the Lord's Prayer too. MARKF Hope all’s well. Brilliant piece - every word sheer poetry. Or as our resident commentator (AB) would say: ‘Oh that’s absolutely brilliant’
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Post by tupist on Mar 17, 2021 14:15:37 GMT
Sour grapes?? No. Truthful answers to local journalists. History of a recent defeat at Stockport in very similar circumstances (clear refereeing error) may have been in his mind. He was complementary of yourself and diplomatically side stepped the question of your morally corrupt tendency to surround/pressurise the ref.I called foul straight away and I was 3 miles away!!! and with the proximity of the line couldn't understand why he didnt flag. If the situation was totally reversed (ie we had won 1-0 in the same circumstances) and having watched/listened to your managers input into the game from the touchline what do you feel his after match comments would have been, more crushed grapes, I guess. Oh and the stand roofs did appear curved without gaps at the rear wall. Complimentary maybe, with barbs, yes. Whenever a losing manager describes the oppo as direct you get an idea there is a sense of disapproval with such a style. He should remember how Chesterfield's winner came at Sutton. Long throw aimed at Denton that Hollis headed in. Pretty direct that but only used last night once Hollis was on the pitch. Can bet you're bottom dollar that if either he or Denton had started there would have been a barrage of directness from the home side. Some managers make me laugh. They seem to think the way they coach their team is the only or best way to play football. The NL is an unforgiving beast and fantastic passing moves isn't always the best way. A mix is needed along with desire, hard work and doing all the horrible stuff to a highly competent level. As a number of posters on the Spireites Forum have stated, Sutton did that stuff far better than the home side and deserved the win. Pretty football alone is not enough. As for morally corrupt, well from what I could see, your skipper wasn't slow in doing the exact same thing on a number of occasions. Ironically, he got booked himself before picking up an unfortunate injury. Not sure too much moral high ground can be taken there. As for the goal, how many times does a defender "bump" a forward and get away with it? Countless times throughout a match. In the second half last night our centre-half was grabbed around the waist and bundled to the ground taking him out of the defensive line as Chesterfield attacked. Thankfully, U's excellent organisation thwarted the danger. I didn't hear Mr Rowe mentioning that. But then, memory can be selective. Sutton won because they was the better side in all departments. But then we're little old non-league Sutton who aren't meant to turn up to the cathedral's of the former EFL clubs and get to deliver a decent sermon and have the last word with the Lord's Prayer too. The suggestion that JRs post match interview was based on sour grapes and my disagreement was the reason for posting. If a manager sees something untoward in the build to a goal surely he has the right to comment without ridicule, wouldnt you agree. You mention posters on the CFC forum stating the best team won, I totally agree, the best side on the night in all departments, congrats. However I do take umbrage with teams who appear to be very well coached in haranguing the ref at every opportunity to get a fellow professional carded. We have to accept at this level we are getting kids refereeing who are being fast tracked to the EFL and therefore some will be easily taken advantage of and for clubs to try exploit this, by what appears to be coaching and encouragement of players to this end, detracts from what little integrity this league has. You mention our captain did the same, maybe so (likely) but we don't know for certain, but he was the captain! Sutton did this numerous times and with a compliment of 5 or 6, it looks pathetic. For us north of Watford it does seem more prevalent to clubs in and around the M25, but there again perhaps we are tarring everyone with the brush of the despised club Borehamwood.
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Post by Andy K on Mar 17, 2021 14:36:13 GMT
You mention posters on the CFC forum stating the best team won, I totally agree, the best side on the night in all departments, congrats. However I do take umbrage with teams who appear to be very well coached in haranguing the ref at every opportunity to get a fellow professional carded. We have to accept at this level we are getting kids refereeing who are being fast tracked to the EFL and therefore some will be easily taken advantage of and for clubs to try exploit this, by what appears to be coaching and encouragement of players to this end, detracts from what little integrity this league has. You mention our captain did the same, maybe so (likely) but we don't know for certain, but he was the captain! Sutton did this numerous times and with a compliment of 5 or 6, it looks pathetic. For us north of Watford it does seem more prevalent to clubs in and around the M25, but there again perhaps we are tarring everyone with the brush of the despised club Borehamwood. That's one thing we can all agree with (Boreham Wood)! So did the 4 yellows your side got last night change the result? No. Did the 2 yellows we got change the result? No. Do you suggest that all 6 yellows or any subset of those were as a direct result of referee intimidation? I doubt it very much. One could argue that in December your goal shouldn't have counted because of Denton's possible foul on Louis John and possibly Hollis' push on our player before the header. We didn't and we didn't. We also didn't blame the ref. You had 6 booked that day. Was that the ref being intimidated, or more the fact Chesterfield can be an overly physical team at times. 10 players booked in the two games between us, compared to Sutton's 4?
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jr
1st team skipper
Posts: 2,166
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Post by jr on Mar 17, 2021 15:06:59 GMT
Chesterfield should have had Taylor sent off and Weston was on his last chance.
I was impressed by the way Rowe expressed himself in the first meeting. Not so last night. Definitely a sore loser. I don't think he enjoyed being outmuscled by little old Sutton.
If we beat Stockport on Saturday then really that takes them out of the running and I'm with Andy K re Halifax. They were excellent in beating Torquay. i think they could be the dark horses. Notts County will still have a say given that they don't concede many but they do have a problem scoring if Wootton isn't on form.
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Post by tupist on Mar 17, 2021 15:07:21 GMT
You mention posters on the CFC forum stating the best team won, I totally agree, the best side on the night in all departments, congrats. However I do take umbrage with teams who appear to be very well coached in haranguing the ref at every opportunity to get a fellow professional carded. We have to accept at this level we are getting kids refereeing who are being fast tracked to the EFL and therefore some will be easily taken advantage of and for clubs to try exploit this, by what appears to be coaching and encouragement of players to this end, detracts from what little integrity this league has. You mention our captain did the same, maybe so (likely) but we don't know for certain, but he was the captain! Sutton did this numerous times and with a compliment of 5 or 6, it looks pathetic. For us north of Watford it does seem more prevalent to clubs in and around the M25, but there again perhaps we are tarring everyone with the brush of the despised club Borehamwood. That's one thing we can all agree with (Boreham Wood)! So did the 4 yellows your side got last night change the result? No. Did the 2 yellows we got change the result? No. Do you suggest that all 6 yellows or any subset of those were as a direct result of referee intimidation? I doubt it very much. One could argue that in December your goal shouldn't have counted because of Denton's possible foul on Louis John and possibly Hollis' push on our player before the header. We didn't and we didn't. We also didn't blame the ref. You had 6 booked that day. Was that the ref being intimidated, or more the fact Chesterfield can be an overly physical team at times. 10 players booked in the two games between us, compared to Sutton's 4? You're missing the point initially i was casting doubt on the claim that JRs post match interview was based on sour grapes. Are you saying that a group of players surrounding the ref and intimidating him at every opportunity is good for the game? especially if your thoughts are correct it as no tangible outcome? With the card stats you put forward even our whispen haired friend that master of logic Boris could put an argument forward supporting the fact that getting in the refs mind reaps rewards. We surely must agree a player carrying a burden of a yellow card doesn't perform the same has when he hasn't. If we dont go up with you take Borehamwood with you. 🙏
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markf
Top Performer
Posts: 3,191
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Post by markf on Mar 17, 2021 15:09:23 GMT
Complimentary maybe, with barbs, yes. Whenever a losing manager describes the oppo as direct you get an idea there is a sense of disapproval with such a style. He should remember how Chesterfield's winner came at Sutton. Long throw aimed at Denton that Hollis headed in. Pretty direct that but only used last night once Hollis was on the pitch. Can bet you're bottom dollar that if either he or Denton had started there would have been a barrage of directness from the home side. Some managers make me laugh. They seem to think the way they coach their team is the only or best way to play football. The NL is an unforgiving beast and fantastic passing moves isn't always the best way. A mix is needed along with desire, hard work and doing all the horrible stuff to a highly competent level. As a number of posters on the Spireites Forum have stated, Sutton did that stuff far better than the home side and deserved the win. Pretty football alone is not enough. As for morally corrupt, well from what I could see, your skipper wasn't slow in doing the exact same thing on a number of occasions. Ironically, he got booked himself before picking up an unfortunate injury. Not sure too much moral high ground can be taken there. As for the goal, how many times does a defender "bump" a forward and get away with it? Countless times throughout a match. In the second half last night our centre-half was grabbed around the waist and bundled to the ground taking him out of the defensive line as Chesterfield attacked. Thankfully, U's excellent organisation thwarted the danger. I didn't hear Mr Rowe mentioning that. But then, memory can be selective. Sutton won because they was the better side in all departments. But then we're little old non-league Sutton who aren't meant to turn up to the cathedral's of the former EFL clubs and get to deliver a decent sermon and have the last word with the Lord's Prayer too. The suggestion that JRs post match interview was based on sour grapes and my disagreement was the reason for posting. If a manager sees something untoward in the build to a goal surely he has the right to comment without ridicule, wouldnt you agree. You mention posters on the CFC forum stating the best team won, I totally agree, the best side on the night in all departments, congrats. However I do take umbrage with teams who appear to be very well coached in haranguing the ref at every opportunity to get a fellow professional carded. We have to accept at this level we are getting kids refereeing who are being fast tracked to the EFL and therefore some will be easily taken advantage of and for clubs to try exploit this, by what appears to be coaching and encouragement of players to this end, detracts from what little integrity this league has. You mention our captain did the same, maybe so (likely) but we don't know for certain, but he was the captain! Sutton did this numerous times and with a compliment of 5 or 6, it looks pathetic. For us north of Watford it does seem more prevalent to clubs in and around the M25, but there again perhaps we are tarring everyone with the brush of the despised club Borehamwood. Ridicule? Who has ridiculed him. Just covered his observations in full to give context to his main grouch. His opinion. Doesn't mean he's right. Nor does being captain give a player the right to constantly gett in the ref's face. I would accept that some Sutton players may have grouped to confront the ref but it wasn't overly aggressive. It didn't work early in the second half, when your fella clearly should have been given one (was he on one already?) and perhaps that's why the Sutton players reacted as they did. That foul was on a par with Omar Bugiel's yellow and the one Gunning received. As for the observation of M25 clubs being more prevalent with this, I couldn't say. I tell you what is more prevalent north of Watford though and that's the propensity for home fans to moan at absolutely everything including their players and manager as well as the usual obvious targets i.e the officials.
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Post by Amber Aleman on Mar 17, 2021 15:29:22 GMT
Sour grapes = disparaging something you've not managed to achieve yourself.
I'd say that pointedly attributing a 1-0 defeat to a debatable refereeing decision, which didn't lead directly to the goal, more-or-less fits the bill.
Others are free to disagree.
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Post by davep on Mar 17, 2021 15:33:33 GMT
I've seen contrasting reports of how many yellow cards we received last night - Bugiel, Eastmond, Simpson? Can anyone confirm? I think Omar and Isaac are both one yellow card away from a suspension.
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Post by tupist on Mar 17, 2021 15:40:20 GMT
Sour grapes = disparaging something you've not managed to achieve youself. I'd say that pointedly attributing a 1-0 defeat to a debatable refereeing decision, which didn't lead directly to the goal, more-or-less fits the bill. Others are free to disagree. 'Acting meanly after a disappoint' would be more apt, which he wasn't just stating what he saw. I dont recall any derogatory comments either.
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Post by tupist on Mar 17, 2021 15:57:58 GMT
The suggestion that JRs post match interview was based on sour grapes and my disagreement was the reason for posting. If a manager sees something untoward in the build to a goal surely he has the right to comment without ridicule, wouldnt you agree. You mention posters on the CFC forum stating the best team won, I totally agree, the best side on the night in all departments, congrats. However I do take umbrage with teams who appear to be very well coached in haranguing the ref at every opportunity to get a fellow professional carded. We have to accept at this level we are getting kids refereeing who are being fast tracked to the EFL and therefore some will be easily taken advantage of and for clubs to try exploit this, by what appears to be coaching and encouragement of players to this end, detracts from what little integrity this league has. You mention our captain did the same, maybe so (likely) but we don't know for certain, but he was the captain! Sutton did this numerous times and with a compliment of 5 or 6, it looks pathetic. For us north of Watford it does seem more prevalent to clubs in and around the M25, but there again perhaps we are tarring everyone with the brush of the despised club Borehamwood. Ridicule? Who has ridiculed him. Just covered his observations in full to give context to his main grouch. His opinion. Doesn't mean he's right. Nor does being captain give a player t.he right to constantly gett in the ref's face. I would accept that some Sutton players may have grouped to confront the ref but it wasn't overly aggressive. It didn't work early in the second half, when your fella clearly should have been given one (was he on one already?) and perhaps that's why the Sutton players reacted as they did. That foul was on a par with Omar Bugiel's yellow and the one Gunning received. As for the observation of M25 clubs being more prevalent with this, I couldn't say. I tell you what is more prevalent north of Watford though and that's the propensity for home fans to moan at absolutely everything including their players and manager as well as the usual obvious targets i.e the officials. Stating an interview had overtones of sour grapes (sounds like poor merlot) could be classed as ridicule. "I would accept that some Sutton players MAY have grouped to confront the ref but it wasn't overly aggressive" there's no 'may' about it, they did. These actions are not always about that particular incident but getting in the refs head to influence future incidents. You're definitely right re., should we call it fickleness? (maybe not, you know what I mean) of home fans, although geographically you could be 40ish miles out you should swap Watford for Brighton
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Post by presssec on Mar 17, 2021 16:06:24 GMT
Bookings last night were for Simpson and Bugiel. As regards suspension, five bookings don't cause a suspension now as we have played more than the number of games up to which they do. Suspensions are now two game bans for reaching ten bookings.
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Post by garethl on Mar 17, 2021 16:27:31 GMT
I think the point about crowding the referee is a good one and I don’t like to see it either. I doubt it achieved much at all on this occasion. I have always felt referees should be left alone completely. Sadly the game doesn’t appear capable of cracking down on it. The protection of referees has been appalling for decades (though arguably there are not properly enforced rules that they can use). There may have been a sense of frustration at the continual tactical fouls when we caught them and were into dangerous areas. They got away with a couple of those too, not bad fouls but stopping us deliberately in threatening situations. Most sides do these types of fouls at times to ‘take one for the team’. It’s probably a reason we tend to draw a lot of fouls and cards against us. There have been other occasions I have seen us doing it (not to the same extent) and I don’t think we need to, it’s not a good look.
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Post by garethl on Mar 17, 2021 16:28:16 GMT
Bookings last night were for Simpson and Bugiel. As regards suspension, five bookings don't cause a suspension now as we have played more than the number of games up to which they do. Suspensions are now two game bans for reaching ten bookings. I couldn’t work out at the time what Simpson did. Any idea what it was for?
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