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Post by baboonfish on Feb 2, 2022 22:27:38 GMT
Up the U’s into LG 1 and our very own double (LG 2 title & FLT). 👋🎈⚽️ Sol and his famous pragmatism 😂 Never change, Sol. |
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Steve D
Youth Team Player
Posts: 117
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Post by Steve D on Feb 3, 2022 11:37:46 GMT
Predicting nine wins at home and only dropping points at home in one game (a draw v FGR) is incredibly optimistic, in my opinion. True, but they also predict just 1 away win, which is incredibly pessimistic. In the end, though, I will be happy no matter what happens now - at the start of the season I would have taken just surviving relegation, although I was hoping for a comfortable mid-table finish. I have to pinch myself every day to check that we really are in the hunt for promotion again. |
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Post by Andy K on Feb 3, 2022 13:43:35 GMT
A lot of these arguments we've seen before. Infact I clearly remember some people saying in that 2017/18 season that we threw away the chance of league football on purpose because we were "not ready".
The club has always stated their aim is to play at the highest level achievable. The difference between other examples is that although we are a small fish in a big pond and potentially a bigger one, the club has always put the sustainability of Sutton United before anything else. If we do get promoted (and my word what an achievement if we do) and come straight back down after one season, I don't think we will fall like a stone because of the expectations set by the board and the majority of fans. We're not going to spend beyond our means to get back up into a division we were punching above our weight in anyway. We could well end up being an established L2 side with the occasional foray into L1. If you look at clubs that do drop like a stone, almost to a penny they have been basket cases of some sort or other. Exactly the same is happening this season. Oldham's troubles are well known, Scunthorpe are totally bust, Colchester and Carlisle have issues with their board. All of them are having off the field issues hampering with the on field stuff.
Whilst we have stability at board level, and stability at management level we are going to be fine. Sure the board has made mistake before (need I even mention Ian Hazel?) but the intentions are always good.
This season is already one to remember, let's see where it takes us. We're in a position where we really can't lose now. Even missing out on a play off spot is a massive achievement for our tiny club. Anything beyond that is really in the realms of some the greatest success stories ever in English football. And I'm totally sincere in that thought.
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Post by is4 on Feb 3, 2022 13:55:30 GMT
To Andy K 's last sentence.
I quite agree.
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Post by is4 on Feb 3, 2022 14:21:24 GMT
Sorry that should have been paragraph.
Oops.
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Post by baboonfish on Feb 3, 2022 16:17:03 GMT
A lot of these arguments we've seen before. Infact I clearly remember some people saying in that 2017/18 season that we threw away the chance of league football on purpose because we were "not ready". The club has always stated their aim is to play at the highest level achievable. The difference between other examples is that although we are a small fish in a big pond and potentially a bigger one, the club has always put the sustainability of Sutton United before anything else. If we do get promoted (and my word what an achievement if we do) and come straight back down after one season, I don't think we will fall like a stone because of the expectations set by the board and the majority of fans. We're not going to spend beyond our means to get back up into a division we were punching above our weight in anyway. We could well end up being an established L2 side with the occasional foray into L1. If you look at clubs that do drop like a stone, almost to a penny they have been basket cases of some sort or other. Exactly the same is happening this season. Oldham's troubles are well known, Scunthorpe are totally bust, Colchester and Carlisle have issues with their board. All of them are having off the field issues hampering with the on field stuff. Whilst we have stability at board level, and stability at management level we are going to be fine. Sure the board has made mistake before (need I even mention Ian Hazel?) but the intentions are always good. This season is already one to remember, let's see where it takes us. We're in a position where we really can't lose now. Even missing out on a play off spot is a massive achievement for our tiny club. Anything beyond that is really in the realms of some the greatest success stories ever in English football. And I'm totally sincere in that thought. I dont disagree. 17/18 was a strange one - it was a very weak league that year as I have stated, and we were as good as anyone else that year. It just fell apart a little at the end. Macclesfield won by default. In hindsight, I think we would have struggled in L2 if we'd gone up and we're much stronger for what has transpired since. I am not saying we WOULD sink, and the scenario you describe sounds glorious, but the single closest parallel is Daggers in L1 for a season. They didn't exactly throw money at L1 but never quite recovered from touching the sun. ANyway you cut it, L1 will cost us more money because of wage increases (from promotion clauses). If we had the infrastructure to take advantage of the bigger attendences and huge away support from teams I've mentioned, then it wouldn't be an issue, but we are nowhere near being ready at GGL. Do people honestly think our ground is not an issue? For starters, there's no access to the bloody bar and the main stand is falling apart. Loads more restricted views around the ground due to league requirements, and the only part which is getting improved is the away end, presumably because this is the only currently feasible way to increase cap. Other than the away end and hopefully fixing the main stand without an oil well in it, is it going to be much better by next season? When we have a ground capable of holding at least 5k people (with decent views, not 3000 with mediocre views and the rest crap) and facilities (such as half time access to the bar), then we might be capable of establishing ourselves in L1. Without wanting to open up a debate about the planned works for the ground, until the rec side is a proper seated stand or terrace closer to the pitch and the GGL end is a proper sized terrace with vaguely decent views, the ground is not going to get us to the level the playing staff and management seem capable of. Both these need to be much higher and closer to the pitch. I gather the council are not particularly accommodating with planning and I am sure the club does not have the money for these projects currently. Perhaps two visits to wembley might smooth the wheels, and nobody can argue what a thrill that would be. |
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Post by garethl on Feb 3, 2022 16:44:35 GMT
A lot of these arguments we've seen before. Infact I clearly remember some people saying in that 2017/18 season that we threw away the chance of league football on purpose because we were "not ready". The club has always stated their aim is to play at the highest level achievable. The difference between other examples is that although we are a small fish in a big pond and potentially a bigger one, the club has always put the sustainability of Sutton United before anything else. If we do get promoted (and my word what an achievement if we do) and come straight back down after one season, I don't think we will fall like a stone because of the expectations set by the board and the majority of fans. We're not going to spend beyond our means to get back up into a division we were punching above our weight in anyway. We could well end up being an established L2 side with the occasional foray into L1. If you look at clubs that do drop like a stone, almost to a penny they have been basket cases of some sort or other. Exactly the same is happening this season. Oldham's troubles are well known, Scunthorpe are totally bust, Colchester and Carlisle have issues with their board. All of them are having off the field issues hampering with the on field stuff. Whilst we have stability at board level, and stability at management level we are going to be fine. Sure the board has made mistake before (need I even mention Ian Hazel?) but the intentions are always good. This season is already one to remember, let's see where it takes us. We're in a position where we really can't lose now. Even missing out on a play off spot is a massive achievement for our tiny club. Anything beyond that is really in the realms of some the greatest success stories ever in English football. And I'm totally sincere in that thought. I dont disagree. 17/18 was a strange one - it was a very weak league that year as I have stated, and we were as good as anyone else that year. It just fell apart a little at the end. Macclesfield won by default. In hindsight, I think we would have struggled in L2 if we'd gone up and we're much stronger for what has transpired since. I am not saying we WOULD sink, and the scenario you describe sounds glorious, but the single closest parallel is Daggers in L1 for a season. They didn't exactly throw money at L1 but never quite recovered from touching the sun. ANyway you cut it, L1 will cost us more money because of wage increases (from promotion clauses). If we had the infrastructure to take advantage of the bigger attendences and huge away support from teams I've mentioned, then it wouldn't be an issue, but we are nowhere near being ready at GGL. Do people honestly think our ground is not an issue? For starters, there's no access to the bloody bar and the main stand is falling apart. Loads more restricted views around the ground due to league requirements, and the only part which is getting improved is the away end, presumably because this is the only currently feasible way to increase cap. Other than the away end and hopefully fixing the main stand without an oil well in it, is it going to be much better by next season? When we have a ground capable of holding at least 5k people (with decent views, not 3000 with mediocre views and the rest crap) and facilities (such as half time access to the bar), then we might be capable of establishing ourselves in L1. Without wanting to open up a debate about the planned works for the ground, until the rec side is a proper seated stand or terrace closer to the pitch and the GGL end is a proper sized terrace with vaguely decent views, the ground is not going to get us to the level the playing staff and management seem capable of. Both these need to be much higher and closer to the pitch. I gather the council are not particularly accommodating with planning and I am sure the club does not have the money for these projects currently. Perhaps two visits to wembley might smooth the wheels, and nobody can argue what a thrill that would be. How exactly being in league 1 any different to league 2 for ground issues? It’s all the same, maybe a few more in the home end but is it really as bad viewing wise as you make out? Not perfect but am sure most get full sight of the action. People seem to keep coming back! We’ll certainly bring in more revenue by doubling away capacity. The rest will happen bit by bit. |
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Post by ganderpoke on Feb 3, 2022 16:58:40 GMT
I think that now crowds are averaging 3000+ at GGL the terraces are becoming pretty crowded and for some people it is hard to see the whole playing area, so yes it would be a better experience if the terracing was nearer the pitch and better tiered. Some extra cover for the "curva's" would be nice too as we've been lucky with the weather over the past few months.
So overall I agree GGL would look out of its class in FL1 but it will all take time so we can only turn up and see where the team takes us (Wembley, hopefully).
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Post by baboonfish on Feb 3, 2022 20:55:47 GMT
I dont disagree. 17/18 was a strange one - it was a very weak league that year as I have stated, and we were as good as anyone else that year. It just fell apart a little at the end. Macclesfield won by default. In hindsight, I think we would have struggled in L2 if we'd gone up and we're much stronger for what has transpired since. I am not saying we WOULD sink, and the scenario you describe sounds glorious, but the single closest parallel is Daggers in L1 for a season. They didn't exactly throw money at L1 but never quite recovered from touching the sun. ANyway you cut it, L1 will cost us more money because of wage increases (from promotion clauses). If we had the infrastructure to take advantage of the bigger attendences and huge away support from teams I've mentioned, then it wouldn't be an issue, but we are nowhere near being ready at GGL. Do people honestly think our ground is not an issue? For starters, there's no access to the bloody bar and the main stand is falling apart. Loads more restricted views around the ground due to league requirements, and the only part which is getting improved is the away end, presumably because this is the only currently feasible way to increase cap. Other than the away end and hopefully fixing the main stand without an oil well in it, is it going to be much better by next season? When we have a ground capable of holding at least 5k people (with decent views, not 3000 with mediocre views and the rest crap) and facilities (such as half time access to the bar), then we might be capable of establishing ourselves in L1. Without wanting to open up a debate about the planned works for the ground, until the rec side is a proper seated stand or terrace closer to the pitch and the GGL end is a proper sized terrace with vaguely decent views, the ground is not going to get us to the level the playing staff and management seem capable of. Both these need to be much higher and closer to the pitch. I gather the council are not particularly accommodating with planning and I am sure the club does not have the money for these projects currently. Perhaps two visits to wembley might smooth the wheels, and nobody can argue what a thrill that would be. How exactly being in league 1 any different to league 2 for ground issues? It’s all the same, maybe a few more in the home end but is it really as bad viewing wise as you make out? Not perfect but am sure most get full sight of the action. People seem to keep coming back! We’ll certainly bring in more revenue by doubling away capacity. The rest will happen bit by bit. Sunderland, ipswich, sheffield weds, Bolton, charlton, porstmouth, probably derby. The only side of similar size in L2 is Bradford. More people will want to see those games, way more away fans. The ground is creaking under the weight of Northampton, Bristol rovers etc so what's it going to be like when we play those sides? As much as I'd love watching us play league football against such opposition, I think we're better off in L2 while the 'bit by bit' happens. |
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Post by garethl on Feb 3, 2022 21:06:21 GMT
Ok, what difference would it make if those sides filled the away end as opposed to Port Vale, Tranmere, Bristol Rovers, Swindon, Northampton, Orient, possibly Crawley, Mansfield, Bradford, Oldham, Exeter? I don’t understand the point. The capacity is the limiting factor and we’ve had no problems filling the stadium in the past. Yes there are many things we’d like to improve and offer which will come in time but I don’t get what the difference is in putting on a game in League 1 versus League 2. We need to add to what we can offer in either league which will happen in time.
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Post by Del on Feb 3, 2022 22:37:56 GMT
There is no game i have watched this season with Sutton home or away where i haven't had a decent view of the pitch with maybe the exception being Bristol Rovers, where i chose to sit and we were put in a small section of stand.
Whilst we are in League 2 or 1 we have the benefit of grants to get us up to the required standard as for EFL football.
Rome wasn't built in a day but i think you will find that work will be continuing throughout the season and the close season if you listen to AB's comments.
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Post by baboonfish on Feb 4, 2022 10:28:57 GMT
Ok, what difference would it make if those sides filled the away end as opposed to Port Vale, Tranmere, Bristol Rovers, Swindon, Northampton, Orient, possibly Crawley, Mansfield, Bradford, Oldham, Exeter? I don’t understand the point. The capacity is the limiting factor and we’ve had no problems filling the stadium in the past. Yes there are many things we’d like to improve and offer which will come in time but I don’t get what the difference is in putting on a game in League 1 versus League 2. We need to add to what we can offer in either league which will happen in time. Those games will attract more neutrals not to mention hundreds of London based fans of those clubs who will come and watch in the home support. I mean, the club has said tickets for Bristol rovers might not be available on the day, what's it going to be like for Sheff Wed or Sunderland? L1 has some huge clubs with significant supporter bases in London. The club will not get anywhere near the value it would from those sort of games with the ground a work in progress. If L1 did happen to be a one time deal (like daggers), it would be a shame to miss out on the revenue. That is my point. Yes it's not make or break but when you add up half time bar revenue, and say 500-1000 extra full price ticket sales lost for the 6 or so big home games, that is a lot of lost revenue. Not make or break but surely it's preferable for us to be in a position to make the most of it. Maybe the club will be able to do all that work in the close season, if we went up, but it seems unlikely. 2 or 3 seasons down the line however, I'd expect GGL to be a significantly better ground. |
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Post by Amber Aleman on Feb 4, 2022 11:34:48 GMT
This thread has developed into an interesting debate about the pros and cons of promotion to League One.
I respectfully propose that this subject be given its own thread. Pretty clearly there's plenty to be said on the issue -and there could be a lot more as the season progresses.
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oohaah
Top Performer
Posts: 3,138
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Post by oohaah on Feb 4, 2022 13:21:38 GMT
I understand that by the end of the season our away capacity should be more than 1000, approximately 20% of our total capacity. The capacity of 'the other United' is 76000 and their allocation to West Ham two weeks ago was 3173, a little over 4%.
I think we are being more than generous.
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Post by Andy K on Feb 4, 2022 14:46:15 GMT
This thread has developed into an interesting debate about the pros and cons of promotion to League One. I respectfully propose that this subject be given its own thread. Pretty clearly there's plenty to be said on the issue -and there could be a lot more as the season progresses. Good point! Feel free to start one  One thing that is missing in these conversations however. I expect the board are already further along in their thinking than we are on this, and various scenarios have been drawn up and are being prepared for. As they were in 2017 and 2020. |
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