The Telegraph article

[Deleted]

www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/09/01/sutton-transgender-goalkeeper-football-match-postponed/

[os]

If Womens teams sign biological males, there will not be any biological females who can compete. I am all for inclusion but logic has to play a part somewhere surely?

[ADMIN]

20000 clubs
2.5 million girls/women playing football
72 Trans Women (a figure quoted by a gender critical person) I do not think it is that high.
so yes there is plenty of teams for everyone.

[opus2024]

I think the FA have a policy which requires certain criteria on testosterone levels gonadectomy and on safety and fairness to be met.

[Del]

So why did we not field a team ?

[newfmkr]

Sept 2, 2024 8:45:55 GMT Del said:

So why did we not field a team ?

other media sources say a number of Sutton players were unhappy with the new GK, and/or the way the previous GK was let go

[steveb]

I’ve seen a comment on X from the Ebbsfleet Chairman saying they have received no explanation from United other than an email saying we were unable to fulfil the fixture. He has asked for an explanation but not had one.

Another comment says the United team were on the way to the match when it was called off!

It’s all very odd and the club silence is deafening!

[Andy K]

Sept 2, 2024 9:01:46 GMT newfmkr said:

Sept 2, 2024 8:45:55 GMT Del said:

So why did we not field a team ?

other media sources say a number of Sutton players were unhappy with the new GK, and/or the way the previous GK was let go

That's not correct. The media quote is "Although not confirmed, it is thought that Sunday's game may have been postponed after some of Hamilton's team-mates refused to play in protest at her signing."

This is media speak of saying "we want to make something up, and we can write it in such a way to imply this is the reason, but we've put enough caveats in there to make people think it's the reason but we won't get sued for it"

[kpinwp]

This can be a thorny path and I am far from unsympathetic to your position. But in your rewritten quote from OS you may have taken it upon yourself to rewritre his actual meaning, not just his use of vocab. Frankly this is presumptuous and unilaterally overruling someone's position or mode of expression (as though it should not exist) cannot be helpful to mutual understanding. It's also just bad tactics. Perhaps a discussion would be more equitable and more likey to bring people together, rather than to polarise?

[kpinwp]

Having found the report, it looks to me largely like the Telegraph sh*t stirring, as they are sometimes wont to in 'culture war' areas. Out of proportion to actual event.

[steveb]

I suspect you’re right but why was the game postponed at very short notice, why doesn’t the Ebsfeet chairman know and why is nobody saying? I’m a former Sutton women’s STH not an Ebbsfleet supporter.

[kpinwp]

Sept 2, 2024 10:08:18 GMT steveb said:

I suspect you’re right but why was the game postponed at very short notice, why doesn’t the Ebsfeet chairman know and why is nobody saying? I’m a former Sutton women’s STH not an Ebbsfleet supporter.

As to any current delay in comms it may well be that the club is taking its time, making sure it talks to everyone, and gets all ducks in a row. That seems both sympathetic and sensible. Especially as a national paper has decided to, effectively, pick on us.

[Andy K]

Sept 2, 2024 10:03:23 GMT kpinwp said:

Having found the report, it looks to me largely like the Telegraph sh*t stirring, as they are sometimes wont to in 'culture war' areas. Out of proportion to actual event.

It won't surprise anyone to know that the Daily Mail have also picked up on this story with an even more unhinged headline. Which, as is usual doesn't actually reflect the article.

It's a very sad world we live in where so many people are unable to read beyond a headline.

[Chelle]

The articles are incorrect.

[sallycat]

Sept 1, 2024 22:37:35 GMT os said:

If Womens teams sign biological males, there will not be any biological females who can compete. I am all for inclusion but logic has to play a part somewhere surely?

I'm sorry OS, I am struggling to see how this makes any sense whatsoever.

So first off you're saying cis women are all so much worse at football than trans women simply because the latter are born with (on average) larger/stronger bodies, that there's no hope of the former ever getting into a team. You do a huge disservice to women's football there. Have you any idea how many trans women are out there compared with cis women, because what you seem to be saying is that the tiny handful of trans women out there must ALL be better footballers than the thousands of cis women who are playing around the country. Otherwise there simply wouldn't be enough trans people to keep them out. And where are the trans footballers at the very top levels, OS? Because I don't see any. Anyone?

If people actually troubled to listen to what trans people say rather than painting them as the baddies who are ruining women's sports, then they would learn very quickly that most trans women who have transitioned to the point where they're seeking to play for a women's team will be on hormone therapy as part of their transition. And those trans women will also be able to tell you that this gives them LOWER testosterone levels than the natural baseline of the average cis women. In simpler terms, the physical advantage you think trans women have over cis women does not exist. They are, if anything, at a DISADVANTAGE. Which might help answer my question at the end of the previous paragraph.

When it suits certain people (and I've stopped talking about you now OS), they'll go on about how men's football and women's football are profoundly different games and that's why it's OK to talk disparagingly about women's football or imply female pundits/commentators shouldn't be involved in the men's game. Logic surely dictates that if the women's game is different from the men's then that's because they play to a style better suited to women's bodies. Wouldn't this also put trans women at a disadvantage? Isn't it funny that a lot of the same people are those shouting loudest about how the inclusion of trans women in women's teams is unfair to cis women. Almost as if their concerns lie with excluding people they don't like rather than for the welfare/rights of the women they've never troubled to listen to before.

This article is a deliberately misleading attempt to discredit trans people who are simply trying to live their lives. Lucy absolutely did not say - as is implied here - that she's trying to build an all-trans team at Sutton. If she ever said that at all, it was several years ago and she was talking about a team that was specifically FOR trans women. It's only included here to provoke unnecessary outrage against people who just want to be treated with the same level of basic respect as everyone else.