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Post by Amber Aleman on Apr 28, 2010 21:56:34 GMT
There's been some discussion in the Kingstonian thread about next season, but I thought the subject deserved its own thread. It might help us to focus on the future rather than agonising over lessons learned from the play-off defeat. Dos has said he thinks we'll win the league next season. We can admire his bravado - but I seem to recall him making a smilar claim about this season. There's an old military saying which applies rather neatly to football promotion campaigns. You can do the job the easy way or the hard way. But the easy way ain't exactly easy, and the hard way's bloody 'ard. Sutton have tried the 'easy' way via the play-offs twice and each time fallen at the first of the two hurdles. Maybe next season we'll have better luck. Because play-off success is down largely to luck - or rather the unpredictable. If you make the play-offs then you've effectively got a one in four chance of going up. Maybe the highest finishing of the four has a slightly better chance than that. But don't forget that last year Staines almost blew it against Carshalton in the final. This season the final is between the clubs that finished 4th and 5th. Winning the league outright is a tall order. Dover and Dartford both strode to commanding leads in the autumn, and then had enough points in the bank to survive winter wobbles before comfortably wrapping up their titles in the spring. They won by 22 and 18 points respectively. But it's quite unusual for a team to win a title so decisively. It would be surprising if the Ryman League were won by such a big margin for a third successive season. I would expect the battle for the 2010/11 title to go right through to April. We can still learn from Dover and Dartford. Both built on strong finishes to their previous seasons and kept the core of their squad over the summer. Sutton can certainly qualify on the first count, as we took 45 points from the second half of 2009/10. Were we to replicate that in the first half of next season we'd be well on the way to the title. But, of course, that's much easier said than done. That brings us to the players. The fairly drastic overhauling of the squad last summer probably contributed to our inconsistent start to the season. I therefore hope that most of the squad stays so we have a decent chance of hitting the ground running next August. That said, I've no doubt that Dos needs to bring in some new players. A 20-goal striker and an experienced left-sided defender would be nice to start with.
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Post by os on Apr 28, 2010 22:49:32 GMT
Well I am slowly coming to terms with last night my stomach has stopped churning now.
The reality is that the ryman is a very difficult league to get out of and a lot of good sides have struggled when they got here and stayed for a few seasons. Recent seasons have shown that if you can build a side capable of getting promotion to the BSS you will probably be chasing a playoff place the following season too. Dover, Staines, AFCW, Chelmsford (2nd season) etc so people should not think we have a bad side because we don't and we proved that when we went to H&R in the FA Cup.
I agree with AA that wholesale changes to a side means that you get an inconsistent start to the season which has now happened 2 years in a row to us. The key is to strengthen what you have to make it better, remember we did come second on 75pts and we really only got going at Xmas and on that form this team would have run Dartford very close.
We missed AJ last night and boy did we need him in his usual place in that second half, so we need to strengthen our defence. Poulton is a class player as is Watts but they need to be playing week in week out, and not spend much of their time on the recovery table. I would say that 3 changes to last nights side would have done us, AJ at the back, a fit Poulton in midfield and a striker like Jolly (go get him dos) and I think that would win this league. We got to start our season in August with 7 or 8 of those players and be winning from game one.
There is a lot of good stuff happening at our club both on and off the field and we need to build on it not knock it down. Like anyone players learn too and we have all learnt this season what we need to do and a lot of those will want to help put that right next season as well.
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Post by Andy K on Apr 28, 2010 23:16:10 GMT
Now the dust is settling, I think it would be fair to say that Dos 'got lucky' in his first season in charge. Thats not me being snide or anything - when he arrived he said his aim was to get the club promoted in 2 years. He didn't say anything else. What we've had since is 2 play offs for 2 years running, two FA cup first round and our first cup final in 6 years. Regardless of whatever happened last night, the last 2 seasons have given us more to shout about that all our time in the BSS where, with the exception of about 4 weeks in 2005, have been at best also rans and at work utterly rubbish.
Yes I also agree we should have gone up this season, but like I've also said, i'd take this if it means next season we go up as champions - how long did Staines have to wait for that to happen and have buillt on success year upon year - and how long did it take AFC with their resources to get out of this league. Trust me, if K's do manage to go up, they are going to have a much more of a struggle next season than we will - something that could have happened to us if we went up.
So moving onto next season - its pretty obvious we will start as one of the favourites, like we did this season. Maybe with the exception of Lowestoft, we will have the biggest crowds and by a lot of teams, we will be the team 'to beat'. Sod this play off crap, I want to go up as champions, and I want us in a years time to win the title, we rush on the pitch to celebrate and we will, at that point, forget last night ever happened.
We also need to learn from others. The biggest lesson is don't dick too much with your team. Carshalton had a great team, then spent most of the season breaking it up and putting it back together. Apart from the 20 goal a season striker, the team needs tweaks, not rebuilding. Those tweaks happened throughout the season, and the effect it had on the side, especially the signings of Perks and Quarm, were easy to see.
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Post by vern on Apr 29, 2010 5:21:27 GMT
It's vital that there isn't a huge change like there was last summer, as like 'os' says, it takes about four months for a side to gel.
I don't want to see any of our fine squad leave. I would hope Pouton, Goodliffe, McKimm and Watts would be happy with less playing time if it meant they could develop their coaching skills bringing on youngsters like Jazz Gold, Daniel Harding, Charlie Taylor, Andre Costa and Stuart Young.
Defence, strong but only when embedded in after a couple of games, invariably when one or two are brought back in the back four after a spell on the bench/physio the communication takes a game to get back in sync - the main problem on Tuesday night for me. My back four would be BH, Kes, Perkins and Bray. JG and JH to come in when required for fresh legs or tactical changes. JG to be defensive coach.
We also have solid players like the Hawes brothers, Bradley Woods-Garness, Anthony Joseph and Sonny Cobbs who are as good as any other in the RP and most of the BSS, they need to get more of a big-time mentality though and be able to step up a level when required.
I believe it is time for either Francis Quarm or Sonny Cobbs to step up and take on the captain's armband, we need to have leadership in the middle of the park. There are able vice captains in BH, BWG and of course Bray and Goodliffe.
Up front, we've done Gargan a big disservice, in expecting a Lineker-type player to do so much work at the back and not give him the service. BWG, Taylor and AJ2 aren't the finished articles but all have the potential. Off the centre Danny Phillips is brilliant and needs to be given as much freedom as possible. Craig Dobson should be kept if he wants to stay - why the hell wasn't he given a crack on Tuesday night....
But yes, we need a goal-hungry poacher, a Traynor type....Jolly? Vines? There are more than one or two unsettled quality strikers out there who would slot right in...and we are the place for them.
My main message to Dos and everyone is - look at what I've posted - we've got a great squad - the best in the RP for the second half of the season - build on it and with it don't make wholesale changes. Develop all the players' mentalities as well as techniques - team-building stuff, morale-boosters, take them all to watch big time games and clubs, work on their minds as well as feet.
And I think we as fans need to step up. Ks were a lot louder, had balloons, confetti, fireworks, smoke and lots of flags...we were on the backfoot. We need to develop an Ultra mentality. Too many non-singers in the core which has a bad effect. Someone on here suggested bringing yellow pages confetti - the response from the club? 'Only if you clear it up'. I mean WTF? All very well all this community lark but it doesn't make for noise and colour and support which in a ground like GGL is needed more than ever. The players can barely hear the fans if they are behind the goal and the action is at the other end. Let's start flags/banners funds, be creative, loud and start August like champions-elect not also-rans.
* I'm gonna start a seperate thread for this last bit.
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Post by markn on Apr 29, 2010 7:07:30 GMT
I agree with much of that Vern. I think that an out and out goal hungry striker would give opposing defences something to think about and give Sam Gargan a partner up front and some space to show what he really can do.
In defence though I think I would still start JG as long as his fitness holds up. I think he reads the game really well and if he is going to play most weeks I would leave the armband with him. He was a good captain this year.
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Post by Del on Apr 29, 2010 7:09:06 GMT
I think its inevitable that some leave but not the wholesale changes of the last pre season.I believe that Dos will try and bring in a proven striker and they don't come cheap.
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Post by garethl on Apr 29, 2010 7:52:41 GMT
He'll need to free up some cash to get striker. I was impressed by Watts but he did less as the season went on. Given his age he might leave. Pouton is clearly quality but cannot play often, therefore may also have to go. JG also struggled with injuries and recovery - we may get one more season out of him. But all in all we have a nucleus. Still think the defence needs looking at too. Conceded 4 goals at home to some very average sides, Ashford, Cray, K's, Tooting. So wasn't as solid as some might think given overall record.3 or 4 players required to get a challenge going for the title imo. Won't be easy and we need to start strongly.
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billy
1st team skipper
Posts: 2,626
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Post by billy on Apr 29, 2010 18:52:38 GMT
Now that the 2 year plan has failed what's the situation ? Do we move the goalposts and call it the 3 year plan or is it back to the start with another 2 year plan ?
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Post by gatekeeper on Apr 29, 2010 19:13:27 GMT
Now that the 2 year plan has failed what's the situation ? Do we move the goalposts and call it the 3 year plan or is it back to the start with another 2 year plan ?
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oohaah
Top Performer
Posts: 3,074
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Post by oohaah on Apr 29, 2010 19:54:41 GMT
when he arrived he said his aim was to get the club promoted in 2 years. He didn't say anything else. Au Contraire Andy! He also said that he wanted to put a smile back on our faces - Who can deny that he hasn't done that?
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Post by Andy K on Apr 29, 2010 22:25:00 GMT
when he arrived he said his aim was to get the club promoted in 2 years. He didn't say anything else. Au Contraire Andy! He also said that he wanted to put a smile back on our faces - Who can deny that he hasn't done that? I was talking in terms of football achievements. In terms of the smiles, he did that within 3 months, when we won at Aylesbury - I think that surprised him too!
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Post by Del on Apr 30, 2010 7:56:10 GMT
I belive the smile disappeared on tuesday night but hopefully it will return next tuesday.Still in a state of shock!
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filbert
1st team Player
Posts: 1,177
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Post by filbert on Apr 30, 2010 10:23:41 GMT
As I am still in therapy after Tuesday night and the nurse says it will take 12 months to get over it, even with the medication, I thought I would break our games down into four sections. 1) Home to top 10 - 20 points 2) Away to top 10 - 18 points 3) Home to bottom 11 - 15 points 4) Away to bottom 11 - 22 points I know statistics can always give you the answer you are looking for by just tweaking the calculations. However it is blindingly obvious that the worst section of results was at home to the bottom 11. If we had added a proven 25 goal a season player he would have got us many more points against the bottom teams. We were only 18 points behind Dartford last weekend and so a little more guile in mid-field plus the goal scorer plus a decent left sided defender to compete with AJ we would have pushed Dartford a lot closer. Simples. I feel better already. Now where's my cheque book? How much do you want?
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Post by vern on Apr 30, 2010 11:32:45 GMT
Can you break down the away performances please by type of ground/distance of fans to pitch/level of noise/distance travelled, time of day, day of week and number of home fans?
Cheers!
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filbert
1st team Player
Posts: 1,177
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Post by filbert on Apr 30, 2010 13:57:08 GMT
Thanks Vern I really needed that sort of reply. BTW we always won ten nil when segregated away from home. Also when allowed drink on the GGL terraces we also won ten nil. Is that enough to be going on with? I apologise if I misread your post but I am a little sensitive at the moment. I am sure most supporters would have known those facts anyway.
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