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Post by VCLXI on Apr 15, 2019 20:39:06 GMT
I personally wouldn't criticise in person or indeed publicly. My rule of thumb is that well, I can't do your job so how can I say you're doing it badly? Same as if anyone who couldn't do my job slates me.
Just my opinion.
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Post by mca on Apr 15, 2019 20:41:14 GMT
Andy K's point 'It's up to the management team to make that call' is close to stating the 'bleedin obvious' to paraphrase Basil Fawlty. Surely, a fan comparison is viable here in a game where both keepers played a half each? I'm sure luckyluckyman can defend himself, but it is at least interesting to denote the stats for keepers, and he does add that Ross isn't solely to blame for adverse results. It seems every time there is a player criticised on AP, it's close to heresy. Having spoken to many managers over 24 years, they all agree fans should back the team during the game, and then call it as they see it afterwards. Amen to that. It Is quite a unique situation. Obviously if JB has stayed on it would have been a completely different game from the 1st time he touched the ball in the 2nd half, butterfly effect etc and both the goal situations wouldn't have happened, also we wouldn't have scored a screamer. But the way it panned out, it's not unfair to say Ross cost us the points. But 2 things can be true at the same time. He's still a brilliant keeper who had a pants day at work. |
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Post by Amber Aleman on Apr 15, 2019 20:42:30 GMT
As I said before I hadn't read all of the posts on here. Why was Jamie subbed? Was he injured? Jamie picked up a groin strain in the first half and was also experiencing back spasms. |
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Post by sallycat on Apr 15, 2019 21:10:25 GMT
I personally wouldn't criticise personally or indeed publicly. My rule of thumb is that well, I can't do your job so how can I say you're doing it badly? Same as if anyone who couldn't do my job slates me. Just my opinion. In practical terms, in my case, that amounts to the same thing as my rule about stuff I wouldn't say to a player's face. Like you, I very rarely do it because I don't actually know what it's like to play football at that level and couldn't do it myself. You won't find a lot of player criticism (if any) in any of my previous posts! I agree with your point about people who couldn't do your job. I'm still slightly salty about the Daily Mail having a go at me for doing my job a few years ago when they didn't have the slightest clue how to do my job or what I was actually supposed to be doing. Good thing they never got hold of my name! |
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Post by scorpioeyes on Apr 15, 2019 21:11:56 GMT
What a r idiculous comment from VCLX1. On your basis, we should never criticise a politician on the basis that we are not politicians.
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Post by sallycat on Apr 15, 2019 21:13:35 GMT
But politicians are responsible for making decisions that directly affect our lives, and we all know everything there is to know about how to live our own lives...
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Post by VCLXI on Apr 15, 2019 21:41:37 GMT
What a r idiculous comment from VCLX1. On your basis, we should never criticise a politician on the basis that we are not politicians. You have read my post and completely misconstrued it. Read it again and remember that it is just an opinion. And it's VCLXI, not 1  |
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Post by Andy K on Apr 16, 2019 6:38:03 GMT
Andy K's point 'It's up to the management team to make that call' is close to stating the 'bleedin obvious' to paraphrase Basil Fawlty. Surely, a fan comparison is viable here in a game where both keepers played a half each? I'm sure luckyluckyman can defend himself, but it is at least interesting to denote the stats for keepers, and he does add that Ross isn't solely to blame for adverse results. It seems every time there is a player criticised on AP, it's close to heresy. Having spoken to many managers over 24 years, they all agree fans should back the team during the game, and then call it as they see it afterwards. Amen to that. If you think that then yet again you miss my point. Let me explain. A) if you go "blah blah my opinion my opinion" and then say "no further debate needed" then you undermine what you say by saying that your opinion is all that counts b) that can comparison argument doesn't focus on a half each c) would it be more appropriate for me just to call him a prick because you seem fine with that passing elsewhere on here. Slow handclap for you I think. Nothing like bearing a grudge is there? Ross made a mistake and probably did cost us a point. 1 point. Not 3. But 1. We were drawing 1-1 at the time. His confidence is now probably shredded to pieces, and if Jamie can't take his place between the sticks this weekend we're going to have Ross in goal - someone who's talented but now low on confidence. Blah blah blah lets take swipes at him because he made a mistake but that really isn't going to help the lad, and therefore the team in the last couple of games in the season. But hey, it's all about OUR opinions isn't it and I must have my say! With opinions come responsibility and if posters on here are going to forget that responsibility then they have as much right to be taken to task as those who they are critical towards. Saying that being negative about a player is almost heresy is possibly one of the most idiotic things I've ever read on here in over 15 years. You don't get improvement from people by giving them sh*t, you encourage and support as best you can, especially with a player who missed an entire season through injury. What would happen if Tommy Wright next season scored an own goal in a silly way that cost us survival or a play off place? Would people suddenly start going on about other strikers are better than him? No. Would people kneejerk to slag him off? No. Ross is no different - a player who actually has been great in a Sutton shirt and this is probably his only mistake he's made. If we were 1 up and it happened and drew the game 1-1 as a result then we'd have actually lost more points in the scheme of things. |
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trev
1st team skipper
In Matt We Trust
Posts: 2,477 
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Post by trev on Apr 16, 2019 10:27:28 GMT
As I said before I hadn't read all of the posts on here. Why was Jamie subbed? Was he injured? Also I'd like to say that I think the referee did a great job. One of the best I've seen this season. I'm not totally familiar with all of the officials so I don't know if we've had him before and how he performed then.
Yes, Jamie was subbed off due to injury, as confirmed by Bairdy in his post-match interview.
For the record, the post-match interviews are essential viewing, in my opinion. We are blessed with a management team that always give an open and honest assessment of matches, and provide criticism where necessary, without resorting to insult.
There's a lesson for some of our posters in there somewhere...
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Post by garethl on Apr 16, 2019 14:27:24 GMT
Andy K's point 'It's up to the management team to make that call' is close to stating the 'bleedin obvious' to paraphrase Basil Fawlty. Surely, a fan comparison is viable here in a game where both keepers played a half each? I'm sure luckyluckyman can defend himself, but it is at least interesting to denote the stats for keepers, and he does add that Ross isn't solely to blame for adverse results. It seems every time there is a player criticised on AP, it's close to heresy. Having spoken to many managers over 24 years, they all agree fans should back the team during the game, and then call it as they see it afterwards. Amen to that. If you think that then yet again you miss my point. Let me explain. A) if you go "blah blah my opinion my opinion" and then say "no further debate needed" then you undermine what you say by saying that your opinion is all that counts b) that can comparison argument doesn't focus on a half each c) would it be more appropriate for me just to call him a prick because you seem fine with that passing elsewhere on here. Slow handclap for you I think. Nothing like bearing a grudge is there? Ross made a mistake and probably did cost us a point. 1 point. Not 3. But 1. We were drawing 1-1 at the time. His confidence is now probably shredded to pieces, and if Jamie can't take his place between the sticks this weekend we're going to have Ross in goal - someone who's talented but now low on confidence. Blah blah blah lets take swipes at him because he made a mistake but that really isn't going to help the lad, and therefore the team in the last couple of games in the season. But hey, it's all about OUR opinions isn't it and I must have my say! With opinions come responsibility and if posters on here are going to forget that responsibility then they have as much right to be taken to task as those who they are critical towards. Saying that being negative about a player is almost heresy is possibly one of the most idiotic things I've ever read on here in over 15 years. You don't get improvement from people by giving them sh*t, you encourage and support as best you can, especially with a player who missed an entire season through injury. What would happen if Tommy Wright next season scored an own goal in a silly way that cost us survival or a play off place? Would people suddenly start going on about other strikers are better than him? No. Would people kneejerk to slag him off? No. Ross is no different - a player who actually has been great in a Sutton shirt and this is probably his only mistake he's made. If we were 1 up and it happened and drew the game 1-1 as a result then we'd have actually lost more points in the scheme of things. Wouldn't necessarily say he'll be low on confidence. Have played with a lot of guys who wouldn't let a couple of mistakes hold them back confidence wise when they next play or indeed in game. It's a very individual thing and I hope Ross maintains the confidence he should have in his ability and not let it affect him for the next match. He has a lot of experience to fall back on and remains a good goalkeeper. I'd say, and I'm sure Ross is big enough to agree, he made 2 serious mistakes (it's just the 2nd one was more ridiculous). No big deal, read most the posts and he gets support from most, he's served us well, we move on. We could easily be talking about him being the difference between 3 and 0 points on the next occasion in our favour. |
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Post by amberinexile on Apr 16, 2019 15:30:10 GMT
'...yet again you miss my point. Let me explain.' Thanks, Andy K - you've saved me a sentence, and I'll forgive the patronisation.
MY point is not about Ross, or Russ, or Raz. It's about the right to make a comment, criticism or comparison about any player.
'But hey, it's all about OUR opinions isn't it and I must have my say!' I'll leave your dramatic exclamation mark, but it's not really needed.
And, uh, yeah...that's what a fans forum is: opinions; and if people don't have their say: no fans forum would exist is surely the logic.
'Saying that being negative about a player is almost heresy is possibly one of the most idiotic things I've ever read on here in over 15 years.' and that's your opinion, brother, no more, no less.
You have this thing about comments on players, Andy K, and me oh my, do you ever get hot under the collar when they're voiced...
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Post by Andy K on Apr 16, 2019 15:50:40 GMT
'...yet again you miss my point. Let me explain.' Thanks, Andy K - you've saved me a sentence, and I'll forgive the patronisation. MY point is not about Ross, or Russ, or Raz. It's about the right to make a comment, criticism or comparison about any player. 'But hey, it's all about OUR opinions isn't it and I must have my say!' I'll leave your dramatic exclamation mark, but it's not really needed. And, uh, yeah...that's what a fans forum is: opinions; and if people don't have their say: no fans forum would exist is surely the logic. 'Saying that being negative about a player is almost heresy is possibly one of the most idiotic things I've ever read on here in over 15 years.' and that's your opinion, brother, no more, no less. You have this thing about comments on players, Andy K, and me oh my, do you ever get hot under the collar when they're voiced... Surely you are not that stupid? Or maybe you are? I can't decide yet. You keep harping on about people's right to opinion. If people were not allowed their opinion on here they would be deleted. But none are. But if you put an opinion on here you leave yourself open to someone thinking the opposite and stating so. So where's the issue? You're framing this as me in particular almost "removing your basic human rights". Many people on here take the view that whilst these players are Sutton players they need positive support. I'm in that camp as are many others. What you are clearly saying is by taking that stance and defending that stance we're wrong because we're stifling opinion. That's obviously not the case. What a place this would be if opinions that others clearly disagree with just floated without a response. But of course that would be fine with you because yeah all about my voice being heard. I'll say this yet again, because you you still have huge trouble understanding this concept, but this is a public place. This is a place anyone can read at any time. Us fans, management, players, other fans and teams. And I reiterate - with that "power" there is a level of responsibility. If someone wants to be critical so be it (and I have been for the record before) but if you think that they should be immune from response or fallout then I suggest you go into the bar and shout the same things and see the reaction you get. Plus yet again as you've done before on here you've stoked the fire. The last time you did this is when I stated an opinion saying that maybe some of these things were best kept out of the public domain as actually they can do more harm that good. But of course you don't care about that whatsoever because you need to be the shining light for "I'm allowed my voice". Well done sir, you're making yourself look foolish again. Like I said at the start, the jury is still out on whether you are stupid or not, because I still can't work out if what I'm saying is sinking in, or you just don't want to hear someone else's opinion. It would be very ironic if it's the latter. |
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Post by amberinexile on Apr 16, 2019 16:07:55 GMT
Let's see: 'idiot', stupid' - anything else?
OK, my turn.
In your haste to spit bile, you miss the point - again. I didn't criticise anyone; I defended the right for others to so do.
That bit about about 'removing basic human rights'? Are you on something potent, and not sharing, lol? You say Sutton players need positive support, and I agree. But unless I'm very much mistaken, the majority will either take comments here with a pinch of salt or ignore. You seem to assume anything said will mentally scar them. Seriously?
It seems your opinion is law, Andy K, and anyone else with a different view gets insulted right, left and centre. I wonder if the moderators reading this agree with me? I've not called you names just because you see things differently, but somehow you think it's OK to do so in return.
Don't insult me like that. By all means, disagree, but you've obviously lost it if you resort to that bullying tone in reply.
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trev
1st team skipper
In Matt We Trust
Posts: 2,477
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Post by trev on Apr 16, 2019 16:14:12 GMT
This is Andy's cue to throw a shoe, surely...
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Post by Andy K on Apr 16, 2019 16:25:37 GMT
Let's see: 'idiot', stupid' - anything else? OK, my turn. In your haste to spit bile, you miss the point - again. I didn't criticise anyone; I defended the right for others to so do. That bit about about 'removing basic human rights'? Are you on something potent, and not sharing, lol? You say Sutton players need positive support, and I agree. But unless I'm very much mistaken, the majority will either take comments here with a pinch of salt or ignore. You seem to assume anything said will mentally scar them. Seriously? It seems your opinion is law, Andy K, and anyone else with a different view gets insulted right, left and centre. I wonder if the moderators reading this agree with me? I've not called you names just because you see things differently, but somehow you think it's OK to do so in return. Don't insult me like that. By all means, disagree, but you've obviously lost it if you resort to that bullying tone in reply. Extraordinary. If you think I'm bullying you then please report me to an admin. I'm no longer going to waste time on your inability to listen to anything you don't want to hear. |
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