tonyd
1st team Player
Posts: 1,496 
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Post by tonyd on Feb 15, 2021 13:34:38 GMT
Presumably, though, as Parmenter feels justified in taking this course of action (backed by the Dover fans) due to unique (sic) financial pressure, then Dover would refuse to pay any fine levied against them. And a points deduction is, more or less, meaningless. So, while I see that that might be the League's preferred first course of action, ulitimately it wlll have to be removal from the league and results expunged. Unless the League does nothing, which I'm not sure is a tenable position for them as it potentially opens the door to all clubs making unilateral decisions to what they will and won't do (or play) for the rest of this season. That's not a precedent the League will want to set. Not even for half a season. There is surely a difference between the current circumstances and normal circumstances? What happens now could only be used as a precedent the next time there is a global pandemic and the nation is in lockdown. Incidentally, refusal to pay a fine would lead to suspension from all competition. |
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Post by brisfitboy on Feb 15, 2021 14:04:59 GMT
Presumably, though, as Parmenter feels justified in taking this course of action (backed by the Dover fans) due to unique (sic) financial pressure, then Dover would refuse to pay any fine levied against them. And a points deduction is, more or less, meaningless. So, while I see that that might be the League's preferred first course of action, ulitimately it wlll have to be removal from the league and results expunged. Unless the League does nothing, which I'm not sure is a tenable position for them as it potentially opens the door to all clubs making unilateral decisions to what they will and won't do (or play) for the rest of this season. That's not a precedent the League will want to set. Not even for half a season. There is surely a difference between the current circumstances and normal circumstances? What happens now could only be used as a precedent the next time there is a global pandemic and the nation is in lockdown. Incidentally, refusal to pay a fine would lead to suspension from all competition. Surely setting a precedent is exactly what it means irrespective of the current situation. |
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Post by Amber Aleman on Feb 15, 2021 14:06:33 GMT
Can anyone shed some light 💡 on when we will have the decision of this vote 🗳? Clubs had 28 days from 1 February to return their votes. Once the number of votes cast has passed the 50%/75% majority threshold then the NL would presumably announce the results straightaway. So I guess they're not there yet. We know that a lot of clubs voted early (some announced how they were voting), and many will want the situation resolved as soon as possible so that they can minimise financial losses. But there may be others who have delayed voting in the hope either of a change of mind at DCMS or (like Mr Micawber) that something will turn up. 🙄 Incidentally, I've not as yet seen any official announcement that tomorrow's game is off. I'm not reading too much into that, but it's possible that behind-the-scenes 'discussions' are taking place. |
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Post by sol on Feb 15, 2021 14:22:42 GMT
Thank you 🙏 AA.
(I only understood your name about 2 weeks ago - not a drinker of ale 🍺 more tea ☕️ for me).
Hope all’s well.
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kpinwp
1st team Player
Posts: 1,248
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Post by kpinwp on Feb 15, 2021 14:43:03 GMT
It's sometimes hard to remember that a normal season used to comprise us merely arguing about whether our current left back was good enough or marvelling at Shots latest internal 'crisis'.
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Post by Andy K on Feb 15, 2021 15:10:08 GMT
Worth remembering that the National League have put out a statement regarding non-fulfilment of fixtures, prior to Dover's announcement:
"Many things have been written regarding charges recently raised in connection for non-fulfilment of fixtures under League Rules.
It may be helpful to explain that this process is merely a mechanism for the League to deal with each of the occasions for non-fulfilment. No fines or sanctions have been raised or recommended and this will be considered at the next stage.
An Independent Panel will be appointed to hear each case and it will be at this stage the issue of “just cause” as outlined in the rule will be objectively assessed in each case based on the evidence before them.
In the interest of fairness of all parties, the cases will not be heard until such time as the outcome of the resolutions are known.
It is important that the framework in place is followed in a consistent manner in all cases and Clubs are able to make their representations appropriately and fairly.
The League will not make any comment during the process on individual cases in fairness to all Clubs but will issue the outcomes and reasons for the decisions following their conclusions.
Should Clubs remain unsatisfied with the outcome they will also all have the opportunity to appeal the decision directly to The Football Association which will be heard by a further Independent Panel in line with The FA Rules and Regulations."
I read into this that there will be no fines or sanctions at least until March and no hearing of the cases until then either, and this may have been the catalyst for the Dover chairman taking the action he did.
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Post by Stewart on Feb 15, 2021 15:21:09 GMT
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Post by scorpioeyes on Feb 15, 2021 15:54:42 GMT
If a team decides not to turn up to a fixture, they forfeit the points,don't they? And if they do it consistently,they should be removed from the league
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Post by Andy K on Feb 15, 2021 16:31:29 GMT
If a team decides not to turn up to a fixture, they forfeit the points,don't they? And if they do it consistently,they should be removed from the league It depends on the circumstances I think. I expect there will be a hearing that Dover will need to turn up at to argue their case, but as the league said, that won't happen until the resolutions have been voted for, so that means March. But you're right, if Dover continue to refuse to play, in the normal course of events, they would do. |
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Post by Stewart on Feb 15, 2021 16:34:53 GMT
If a team decides not to turn up to a fixture, they forfeit the points,don't they? And if they do it consistently,they should be removed from the league Sadly I think Dover won’t be the last club refusing to play. King’s Lynn could well be the next club to furlough all their salaried staff. |
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Post by pinewalker on Feb 15, 2021 16:52:45 GMT
Taking a guess that the VNL has several rules that are from the standard code.
The rules already provide that a team which fails to fulfil its fixtures: a/ if it has played 75% of its fixtures - has the remaining fixtures awarded against it, but no goals are awarded just the points; b/ if it has not played 75% of its fixtures (Dover's case) - all its existing results are expunged.
Expulsion from the league is not automatic if the club does not resign but simply ceases to play in the current season. A vote on the issue would be put to the member clubs at a general meeting, which could be to relegate to a lower division or expel.
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kpinwp
1st team Player
Posts: 1,248
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Post by kpinwp on Feb 15, 2021 17:10:02 GMT
Worth remembering that the National League have put out a statement regarding non-fulfilment of fixtures, prior to Dover's announcement: "Many things have been written regarding charges recently raised in connection for non-fulfilment of fixtures under League Rules. It may be helpful to explain that this process is merely a mechanism for the League to deal with each of the occasions for non-fulfilment. No fines or sanctions have been raised or recommended and this will be considered at the next stage. An Independent Panel will be appointed to hear each case and it will be at this stage the issue of “just cause” as outlined in the rule will be objectively assessed in each case based on the evidence before them. In the interest of fairness of all parties, the cases will not be heard until such time as the outcome of the resolutions are known. It is important that the framework in place is followed in a consistent manner in all cases and Clubs are able to make their representations appropriately and fairly. The League will not make any comment during the process on individual cases in fairness to all Clubs but will issue the outcomes and reasons for the decisions following their conclusions. Should Clubs remain unsatisfied with the outcome they will also all have the opportunity to appeal the decision directly to The Football Association which will be heard by a further Independent Panel in line with The FA Rules and Regulations." I read into this that there will be no fines or sanctions at least until March and no hearing of the cases until then either, and this may have been the catalyst for the Dover chairman taking the action he did. While I think it would take a lot to make the continuation of the season unworkable I do worry that this somewhat delayed response process (albeit an understandably tidy one) on behalf of the NL might lead to an increase in instability. If Dover are not going to fulfill their fixture obligations then the other clubs need to know what happens to the 'Dover points' as soon as possible, and the further into the season we get the more pressing that decision and knowledge becomes. The need for that matter to be settled becomes even more pressing should any other club(s) follow in Dover's path. |
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Post by scorpioeyes on Feb 15, 2021 17:19:43 GMT
Logically,it would be best for their records this season to be expunged and they can start next season in the NL South,if they wish.( which is where they would end up if they carried on anyway)
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Post by garethl on Feb 15, 2021 18:11:28 GMT
I can see them still being in this league next season given tier 2 looks like it is being voided. I would imagine there would be a soft touch, and mitigation, given the circumstances. This would presumably give them a competitive advantage over those who carry on and find extra cash so it’s certainly not clear cut what happens! Crazy times.
Given the owner has stumped up millions over the years I would be surprised if he couldn’t afford to tide them over a month or 2. Unless Covid has ruined his financial position in which case fair enough. I think, speculating completely, they are playing on the situation and hoping a club or 2 follow essentially forcing the cancellation of the season. With the tier below seeing plenty of refusals to play if a few at this level do the same it’s hard to see them all being thrown out for the start of next season.
Publicly not sure any other NLP side wants to stop?
Going to be interesting how it all plays out.
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Post by Andy K on Feb 15, 2021 18:14:49 GMT
Logically,it would be best for their records this season to be expunged and they can start next season in the NL South,if they wish.( which is where they would end up if they carried on anyway) Not specifically in this case. If the resolutions go in the way that early votes are showing then we will be in a position in March where the N&S are null and void but our league continues. If that is the case there will be no relegation from our division, and Dover may finish bottom, but won't get relegated. |
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