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Post by baboonfish on Aug 1, 2022 9:59:56 GMT
The way that many posters rush to protect the players from perceived ‘negativity’ is understandable, but quite often such perceived negativity is nothing more than observation that is mildly critical. To suggest that the knives are out for Rose is wide of the mark - they are just the thoughts of a few concerned supporters which are being shared with others. If you disagree that his kicking and distribution have areas of concern then please explain why you think so rather than suggest that such observations are purely born of spite. The forum would be a sedate and less lively place without an acceptance that sometimes we might need to discuss things of a less positive bent. Sure. Judging players on one competitive game at the very start of the season isn't a judgment. It's a kneejerk reaction. If we're into September and this has been an issue in every game in August, I wouldn't have an issue with it. But to judge a player on what is pereceived as a season defining weakness based on one match is a folly. We are a league 2 side with league 2 players. Almost with exception they won't be able to perform at a consistent level week in week out (I'd say with one notable exception in our current side). One player worshipped by some of our fans and now at Peterborough spent half of last season unable to cross a ball, and once that part of his game improved there were many matches where he was anonymous, yet never was the player marked out as having important parts of their game missing. Personally, I didn't notice his kicking that match, either negatively or positively. The backpass incident was, however, silly. But then he also made 2 key saves, one spectacular and the other (which I think was probably even better) was the 1 on 1 he did in the 2nd half. Over the rest of the squad there were a handful who had good games and other who didn't have the best game they could have had. None of those players, as is the case for Rose just as much, defines their ability to compete at this level based on one game. On a personal, possibly incorrect assumption, it could well be others judging new or current players based on others. Maybe people are judging Rose compared to Bouzanis, in the same way Randall and Boldewijn were judged last season compared to Ajiboye. When people find a "favourite" player, it's sometimes human nature to compare others to that standard, even if they play in a totally different way. Personally I'll take the opinion that Matt Gray will always know more than us, and feels that Rose is good enough to be our first choice goalkeeper for this season. Normally I would agree with you here, but let's not forget Rose's kicking was mentioned in pre-season too as a potential issue. Sometimes a technical issue is so glaring, it's immediately obvious and to me this is such a situation. Im surprised you didn't notice. At risk of repeating myself, Matt and the coaching staff will be aware and will be trying to improve the weakness, and will make tactical adjustments such as playing out from the back or using a target man. I will say its pretty obvious Rose was intended to be signed as a back up with Deano expected to stay, and Matt said in interviews he was still looking to bring in a keeper. That may have changed and if Rose can improve his long kicking, he may well be our number 1 for the season. He's fairly young, sometimes players adjust very quickly. If not, then we have House as an option and he looks capable too. Regards comparisons, if Rose can avoid the odd inexplicable howler which Deano was prone to, then we may come out even. They are clearly very different types of keeper, I am looking purely at long kicking here, which was one of Deano's main strengths. |
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Post by Amber Aleman on Aug 1, 2022 10:29:04 GMT
Just a reminder that we do have a goalkeeping coach, Andy Little, whom I believe Matt rates highly. If there's any aspect of our keeper's play that needs working on then I've no doubt that Andy will be on the case.
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Post by is4 on Aug 1, 2022 11:57:04 GMT
Apologies to A L in an earlier post I forgot his name.Oops.
As I said in that post he would be the one to sort out any problems.
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Post by Andy K on Aug 1, 2022 12:06:27 GMT
Sure. Judging players on one competitive game at the very start of the season isn't a judgment. It's a kneejerk reaction. If we're into September and this has been an issue in every game in August, I wouldn't have an issue with it. But to judge a player on what is pereceived as a season defining weakness based on one match is a folly. We are a league 2 side with league 2 players. Almost with exception they won't be able to perform at a consistent level week in week out (I'd say with one notable exception in our current side). One player worshipped by some of our fans and now at Peterborough spent half of last season unable to cross a ball, and once that part of his game improved there were many matches where he was anonymous, yet never was the player marked out as having important parts of their game missing. Personally, I didn't notice his kicking that match, either negatively or positively. The backpass incident was, however, silly. But then he also made 2 key saves, one spectacular and the other (which I think was probably even better) was the 1 on 1 he did in the 2nd half. Over the rest of the squad there were a handful who had good games and other who didn't have the best game they could have had. None of those players, as is the case for Rose just as much, defines their ability to compete at this level based on one game. On a personal, possibly incorrect assumption, it could well be others judging new or current players based on others. Maybe people are judging Rose compared to Bouzanis, in the same way Randall and Boldewijn were judged last season compared to Ajiboye. When people find a "favourite" player, it's sometimes human nature to compare others to that standard, even if they play in a totally different way. Personally I'll take the opinion that Matt Gray will always know more than us, and feels that Rose is good enough to be our first choice goalkeeper for this season. Normally I would agree with you here, but let's not forget Rose's kicking was mentioned in pre-season too as a potential issue. Sometimes a technical issue is so glaring, it's immediately obvious and to me this is such a situation. Im surprised you didn't notice. At risk of repeating myself, Matt and the coaching staff will be aware and will be trying to improve the weakness, and will make tactical adjustments such as playing out from the back or using a target man. I will say its pretty obvious Rose was intended to be signed as a back up with Deano expected to stay, and Matt said in interviews he was still looking to bring in a keeper. That may have changed and if Rose can improve his long kicking, he may well be our number 1 for the season. He's fairly young, sometimes players adjust very quickly. If not, then we have House as an option and he looks capable too. Regards comparisons, if Rose can avoid the odd inexplicable howler which Deano was prone to, then we may come out even. They are clearly very different types of keeper, I am looking purely at long kicking here, which was one of Deano's main strengths. I see it was mentioned by one poster in one game, I agree. But like I said I was neutral about it. I didn't think it was especially good or poor. I did notice however what a quality game Louis had, or how Enzio struggled more in the 2nd half or how solid Ali Smith was. I generally tend to notice things that would be out of the ordinary and I just didn't think his kicking was anything but ordinary. But like I mentioned before with Ajiboye, as was the case with Tom Bolarinwa, for well over half a season in each case neither of them could deliver a decent cross, which is integral to a player playing in that position. That didn't mean they we would be in for a "long season". That's the thing about football, and our team especially. It's a team sport and the whole team can adjust to any percieved weaknesses, as well on strengths. I expect Rose will get stronger as the season goes on and whether he will end up being first choice keeper in September will probably depend on who Matt gets in this month. But in terms of the job he primarily is employed to do i.e. stop the other side scoring, I've not seen anything to be concerned about. If we're relying on kicks from the keeper to be the primary source of our attacks, then one could easily argue that there are bigger concerns in the team. |
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Post by is4 on Aug 1, 2022 12:22:25 GMT
Andy I quite agree with your comments.
I wonder if there is any data regarding
The use of long kicks being used as a main attacking weapon compared to the use of passing.I am not knocking the tactic of the 'long ball'And target player etc. but I feel we use it to often.
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Post by baboonfish on Aug 1, 2022 20:39:36 GMT
Normally I would agree with you here, but let's not forget Rose's kicking was mentioned in pre-season too as a potential issue. Sometimes a technical issue is so glaring, it's immediately obvious and to me this is such a situation. Im surprised you didn't notice. At risk of repeating myself, Matt and the coaching staff will be aware and will be trying to improve the weakness, and will make tactical adjustments such as playing out from the back or using a target man. I will say its pretty obvious Rose was intended to be signed as a back up with Deano expected to stay, and Matt said in interviews he was still looking to bring in a keeper. That may have changed and if Rose can improve his long kicking, he may well be our number 1 for the season. He's fairly young, sometimes players adjust very quickly. If not, then we have House as an option and he looks capable too. Regards comparisons, if Rose can avoid the odd inexplicable howler which Deano was prone to, then we may come out even. They are clearly very different types of keeper, I am looking purely at long kicking here, which was one of Deano's main strengths. I see it was mentioned by one poster in one game, I agree. But like I said I was neutral about it. I didn't think it was especially good or poor. I did notice however what a quality game Louis had, or how Enzio struggled more in the 2nd half or how solid Ali Smith was. I generally tend to notice things that would be out of the ordinary and I just didn't think his kicking was anything but ordinary. But like I mentioned before with Ajiboye, as was the case with Tom Bolarinwa, for well over half a season in each case neither of them could deliver a decent cross, which is integral to a player playing in that position. That didn't mean they we would be in for a "long season". That's the thing about football, and our team especially. It's a team sport and the whole team can adjust to any percieved weaknesses, as well on strengths. I expect Rose will get stronger as the season goes on and whether he will end up being first choice keeper in September will probably depend on who Matt gets in this month. But in terms of the job he primarily is employed to do i.e. stop the other side scoring, I've not seen anything to be concerned about. If we're relying on kicks from the keeper to be the primary source of our attacks, then one could easily argue that there are bigger concerns in the team. Enzio looked shagged in the second half and it was a major surprise he stayed on until the end. Some fair points, but its vital a keeper can get good distance to alieviate some pressure. We couldn't really get out of our half for much of the second period, and part of that was down to Rose's vertical kicks dropping inside our half. Anyone who has played the old arcade classic track and field (the javelin in particular) will know what the issue is. As you say, we'll have to adjust our tactics and learn to play out from the back a bit more. |
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Post by davethegrave on Aug 4, 2022 18:32:27 GMT
I see it was mentioned by one poster in one game, I agree. But like I said I was neutral about it. I didn't think it was especially good or poor. I did notice however what a quality game Louis had, or how Enzio struggled more in the 2nd half or how solid Ali Smith was. I generally tend to notice things that would be out of the ordinary and I just didn't think his kicking was anything but ordinary. But like I mentioned before with Ajiboye, as was the case with Tom Bolarinwa, for well over half a season in each case neither of them could deliver a decent cross, which is integral to a player playing in that position. That didn't mean they we would be in for a "long season". That's the thing about football, and our team especially. It's a team sport and the whole team can adjust to any percieved weaknesses, as well on strengths. I expect Rose will get stronger as the season goes on and whether he will end up being first choice keeper in September will probably depend on who Matt gets in this month. But in terms of the job he primarily is employed to do i.e. stop the other side scoring, I've not seen anything to be concerned about. If we're relying on kicks from the keeper to be the primary source of our attacks, then one could easily argue that there are bigger concerns in the team. Enzio looked shagged in the second half and it was a major surprise he stayed on until the end. Some fair points, but its vital a keeper can get good distance to alieviate some pressure. We couldn't really get out of our half for much of the second period, and part of that was down to Rose's vertical kicks dropping inside our half. Anyone who has played the old arcade classic track and field (the javelin in particular) will know what the issue is. As you say, we'll have to adjust our tactics and learn to play out from the back a bit more. Because of course real life is the same as a stupid computer game. |
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trev
1st team skipper
In Matt We Trust
Posts: 2,477 
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Post by trev on Aug 4, 2022 19:56:57 GMT
Enzio looked shagged in the second half and it was a major surprise he stayed on until the end. Some fair points, but its vital a keeper can get good distance to alieviate some pressure. We couldn't really get out of our half for much of the second period, and part of that was down to Rose's vertical kicks dropping inside our half. Anyone who has played the old arcade classic track and field (the javelin in particular) will know what the issue is. As you say, we'll have to adjust our tactics and learn to play out from the back a bit more. Because of course real life is the same as a stupid computer game. You may scoff, but the Track And Field game engine had a reputation for being accurate, given that there was a direct correlation between throwing trajectory and distance i.e. the steeper the throwing angle, the shorter the throwing distance. The point baboonfish was making in this regard is perfectly valid - the higher a football is kicked vertically, the less far it travels horizontally. |
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Post by brisfitboy2 on Aug 4, 2022 20:58:40 GMT
Which I suppose is why when the wind is blowing keep it low especially at GGL. And we know that quite often even a breeze here can affect the trajectory.
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Post by Andy K on Aug 6, 2022 6:57:28 GMT
Because of course real life is the same as a stupid computer game. You may scoff, but the Track And Field game engine had a reputation for being accurate, given that there was a direct correlation between throwing trajectory and distance i.e. the steeper the throwing angle, the shorter the throwing distance. The point baboonfish was making in this regard is perfectly valid - the higher a football is kicked vertically, the less far it travels horizontally. Without being too anal, and speaking as someone who has a physics degree, that's not entirely true. The height of a projectile has less to do with how far it travels as does its horizontal velocity. Hence why in track and field, the "perfect" angle was always 45 degrees but in real life that wouldn't be the case and doesn't take into account the energy put into a projectile. When computers were first invented the first thing they were ever used for were for gunnery tables. I think that explains the complexity a little more. |
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trev
1st team skipper
In Matt We Trust
Posts: 2,477
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Post by trev on Aug 6, 2022 8:39:39 GMT
You may scoff, but the Track And Field game engine had a reputation for being accurate, given that there was a direct correlation between throwing trajectory and distance i.e. the steeper the throwing angle, the shorter the throwing distance. The point baboonfish was making in this regard is perfectly valid - the higher a football is kicked vertically, the less far it travels horizontally. Without being too anal, and speaking as someone who has a physics degree, that's not entirely true. The height of a projectile has less to do with how far it travels as does its horizontal velocity. Hence why in track and field, the "perfect" angle was always 45 degrees but in real life that wouldn't be the case and doesn't take into account the energy put into a projectile. When computers were first invented the first thing they were ever used for were for gunnery tables. I think that explains the complexity a little more. There's no such thing as too anal on this forum, Andy.  But my recollection is that the optimal angle for Track And Field (having played it far too often in my youth) was less than 45 degrees, around the 42 degree mark. Similarly, in the real world, the optimal angle for projectile distance, including a football, is less than 45 degrees. There are numerous scientific publications confirming this, on account of the way in which aerodynamics increases drag force for steeper trajectories, which given your degree background I will assume you're aware of. |
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trev
1st team skipper
In Matt We Trust
Posts: 2,477
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Post by trev on Aug 6, 2022 9:30:44 GMT
I promise I won't say anything more about aerodynamic force, because it's a real drag.
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Post by davethegrave on Aug 7, 2022 21:28:45 GMT
Without being too anal, and speaking as someone who has a physics degree, that's not entirely true. The height of a projectile has less to do with how far it travels as does its horizontal velocity. Hence why in track and field, the "perfect" angle was always 45 degrees but in real life that wouldn't be the case and doesn't take into account the energy put into a projectile. When computers were first invented the first thing they were ever used for were for gunnery tables. I think that explains the complexity a little more. There's no such thing as too anal on this forum, Andy. Yes I'm sure. |
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