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Post by Andy K on Oct 14, 2023 21:36:37 GMT
I wish a change of a couple players could make the difference but sadly I think its deeper rooted. Thinking more after calming down a bit, I will officially state that I am in the Matt out camp. And I have to remove my heart from this matter to say that. Nothing lasts forever as they say. I will support the players, Matt, and the club as much as I can from here, But I wont be able to do it with belief any longer and I can only hope that a couple other teams are that bad that we have a chance. With attendances no doubt going to fall through the floor this year, an FA cup run may prove very important. And yes, that does mean I am going to update my pre season league table prediction I think that's a good point. Let's see who we get in the cup tomorrow. If we draw a Farnborough level side and go out in the same way, then that could be the end of the road for Matt. The loss of income could be enough for the board to be swayed
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Post by os on Oct 14, 2023 21:44:28 GMT
Andy, are you saying you think its time for Matt to go?
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Post by Andy K on Oct 14, 2023 22:44:40 GMT
Andy, are you saying you think its time for Matt to go? No.
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Post by Amber Aleman on Oct 15, 2023 4:22:25 GMT
I've not a great deal to add. I do think, at the very least, there should be an apology to those fans who travelled to watch such an apology for a performance. It's not as if Doncaster, depleted by injuries, were a particularly strong side.
I missed our very late consolation goal as by that stage I'd walked out. I wasn't the only one.
That display had 'relegation' written all over it. I go to nearly all the games, home and away, but am now considering how many of the remaining matches I'll bother attending.
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Post by steveb on Oct 15, 2023 7:02:30 GMT
I am intrigued by what appears to be going on. Itâs as if the players (some at least) are deliberately playing badly or not trying. I think we have a âbetterâ squad than last season and donât think itâs a case of everybody else improving more than we have.
I donât think itâs just down to tactics or being found out by the opposition.
There has to be something rotten within the set up.
I donât go to away matches but know someone who always does and feel sorry for them witnessing these total collapses.
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Post by boomboom on Oct 15, 2023 7:58:01 GMT
I am intrigued by what appears to be going on. Itâs as if the players (some at least) are deliberately playing badly or not trying. I think we have a âbetterâ squad than last season and donât think itâs a case of everybody else improving more than we have. I donât think itâs just down to tactics or being found out by the opposition. There has to be something rotten within the set up.I donât go to away matches but know someone who always does and feel sorry for them witnessing these total collapses. I must admit I've been thinking that myself and it goes back to the end of last season. As for the squad, I agree the attack is better and defence little changed but midfield I'd say is weaker especially with Eastmond out now. Also, we're missing Bugiel's bustling. TBH I think midfield has been relatively the weakest part of the team under Matt but we've been able to compensate in other areas. Cracks can only be papered over for so long.
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Post by Amber Aleman on Oct 15, 2023 8:08:44 GMT
Curiously, although we've lost all of our away games in the league, we've scored in every one of them*. That's not the case at home where we've failed to score in four league matches. I'm not sure what that tells us, but there seems to be something wrong with the balance between defence and attack. I suspect that most of us would have been content with a 0-0 yesterday.
*EDIT: except Crawley
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Post by Big Al on Oct 15, 2023 8:31:51 GMT
Andy, are you saying you think its time for Matt to go? No. So I guess the question is if not now then when?
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Post by Andy K on Oct 15, 2023 8:56:24 GMT
So I guess the question is if not now then when? When the board or Matt decides to. There's a hell of a lot of information both on and off the pitch they know that we don't. They're in a much better position than any of us to make any calls.
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Post by Big Al on Oct 15, 2023 9:24:46 GMT
So I guess the question is if not now then when? When the board or Matt decides to. There's a hell of a lot of information both on and off the pitch they know that we don't. They're in a much better position than any of us to make any calls. Not sure what âinformationâ you are referring to Andy - I would have thought the results achieved at the end of last season and through the beginning of this are far and away the most significant index. However do agree that we should trust the Board in this matter though I donât think this can be Mattâs decision alone to make should he wish to stay. I also believe that the fans do have a voice in this because without a support base the financial platform disappears quickly.
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Post by Andy K on Oct 15, 2023 9:42:29 GMT
When the board or Matt decides to. There's a hell of a lot of information both on and off the pitch they know that we don't. They're in a much better position than any of us to make any calls. Not sure what âinformationâ you are referring to Andy - I would have thought the results achieved at the end of last season and through the beginning of this are far and away the most significant index. However do agree that we should trust the Board in this matter though I donât think this can be Mattâs decision alone to make should he wish to stay. I also believe that the fans do have a voice in this because without a support base the financial platform disappears quickly. When I say "information", some examples could be the cost to remove the management team (remember at this level, sacking a manager invariably means sacking the management team, which comes with more significant financial burden), whether there is anyone available for the right price to come in to do the job and whether discussions are taking place (more often than not, a new manager has been identified and probably has agreed via a handshake before league managers are dismissed), whether there are issues among specific members of staff (players or coaching), whether there are injuries players are being forced to play with because we don't have any other options, whether there are personal reason for the loss of form of players who are usually dependable and a plethora of other reasons. We're not privvy to that info (and I think rightly so) but I'd be surprised and disappointed if there hasn't been any discussions or self reflection from either side to the quite frankly shambolic away form this season. As I said before, if we lost by the odd goal, or did at Doncaster what we did last season, then it would be much less of an issue, but regularly shipping 3,4 and occasionally 5 goals away from home every single game is in no way acceptable or excuseable. If Matt thinks it is (and I don't think he does) then I'd agree that the decision for him to remain as manager of a football league club should be taken out of his hands. But Matt being the level headed guy he is, must get to a point where he puts his hands up and says "I can't fix this" and move on himself. The huge caveat to all this (and coming from a place of 35+ years of supporting) is that if you ask any longer term supporter, they'd tell you that we are punching above our weight, especially in terms of budget and facilities. I really think in those circumstances, you'd really struggle to get anyone in who could do a better long term job than what we've currently got.
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Post by fourfourtwo on Oct 15, 2023 10:01:19 GMT
I keep hearing a lot of people talking about the position of Josh Coley, but I feel like there is an actual tactical decision for it. Out of position the front players are lining up as a 3 or a 4 depending on the opposition and where the ball is. The issue with it is when the press gets beaten the centre mids are being dragged into wide areas or the full backs are being exposed. In Coley and Patrick we have 2 wingers who want to âcheatâ, staying high rather than track back. Last year, enzio got a lot of grief for his lack of output but he quietly helped protect the full backs, something that is being exposed this season.
I would also say that once again the two stand out players on the day were Aidan OâBrien and Harry Smith. Aidan puts himself about all game, summed up by him helping out in the left back area in stoppage time. I thought Harryâs head dropped slightly at 1-0, but once he had his chance he was back to giving everything. And itâs understandable, if youâre constantly being expected to score 2 goals every game to make up for whatâs going on behind you, you will get downhearted from time to time.
November is a huge month now. Colchester, tranmere and Grimsby on the 3 consecutive Saturdays after the FA Cup are more and more becoming must wins. Lose those 3 and we will all be in agreement that the relegation battle is well and truly on if not already over, win all 3 and it could be the kick start to the mid season successful run of form that was so key to staying safe last year.
Time to turn the season around, up the Us
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Post by os on Oct 15, 2023 22:56:46 GMT
The huge caveat to all this (and coming from a place of 35+ years of supporting) is that if you ask any longer term supporter, they'd tell you that we are punching above our weight, especially in terms of budget and facilities. I really think in those circumstances, you'd really struggle to get anyone in who could do a better long term job than what we've currently got. I think the answer to that depends on your perspective, for most of my years supporting Sutton, it has been a very well run non league club often achieving things way above anyone's wildest expectations. The club was so good at that, it ended up building a team capable of gaining promotion to the EFL. I see that as the end of an era and the birth of a new one with a different structure, a different setup, and different people at the helm. I don't think we can judge this 'Sutton United' against that of even just a few years ago in the National League, this one has to be judged for what it is a professional EFL club. The question of where do we go from here, has to be a valid one in my book?
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Post by boomboom on Oct 16, 2023 9:59:49 GMT
The huge caveat to all this (and coming from a place of 35+ years of supporting) is that if you ask any longer term supporter, they'd tell you that we are punching above our weight, especially in terms of budget and facilities. I really think in those circumstances, you'd really struggle to get anyone in who could do a better long term job than what we've currently got. I think the answer to that depends on your perspective, for most of my years supporting Sutton, it has been a very well run non league club often achieving things way above anyone's wildest expectations. The club was so good at that, it ended up building a team capable of gaining promotion to the EFL. I see that as the end of an era and the birth of a new one with a different structure, a different setup, and different people at the helm. I don't think we can judge this 'Sutton United' against that of even just a few years ago in the National League, this one has to be judged for what it is a professional EFL club. The question of where do we go from here, has to be a valid one in my book? Relevant to this is research I've seen (relating to the PL & EFL IIRC) that very often there is a new manager "bounce" in results for around half-a-dozen games but then the pattern refers to what it was previously. I guess it's an example of the statistical concept of "reversion to the mean". What the research also demonstrated, not surprisingly, is that turnover/playing budget is the most important factor determining a team's league position. We don't know how our budget compares to other clubs. Given the acquisition of players such as Smith and Patrick (both of whom, incidentally, have already scored just one league goal fewer than last season's joint top scorers); the expansion of the management team; and the training facilities suggest to me that the budget is not so low as to satisfactorily explain the run of woeful results. Indeed, Matt has often praised the Board for their support. I wonder how badly, if at all, they feel let down at the moment?
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Post by is4 on Oct 16, 2023 13:30:23 GMT
I have in the past, often said that we are using the wrong tactics.I still feel the same way. But this goes alot deeper. I hope I am proved wrong ,but I think that the team management have lost the changing room. Looking at the stats on another thread it clearly shows that there is something wrong. Matt comes out with his usual statements after each game.nothing changes. "It's down to training etc." But we see no change. Again I hope I am found wrong.
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