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Post by suttonpodcast on Dec 18, 2023 18:58:15 GMT
My stance has been the same for weeks/months we "might" get relegated under Matt but we WILL under anyone else.
Obviously a range of guests will have own thoughts and opinions. But I was surprised to read we said Matt lost the dressing room.
Thanks for clarifying was your own opinion from what was discussed.
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kpinwp
1st team Player
Posts: 1,245
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Post by kpinwp on Dec 18, 2023 19:37:29 GMT
One thing that puzzles me, slightly, is the view that although with Matt we might get relegated by getting someone else in we actually increase the chances of the drop.
Why so? Due to them likely being of poor calibre and not having sufficient time to make changes?
To me it sounds a little like 'hanging on to nurse for fear of something worse'. But, I'm not having a pop, I'm honestly interested in the rational.
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Post by suttonpodcast on Dec 18, 2023 19:59:38 GMT
One thing that puzzles me, slightly, is the view that although with Matt we might get relegated by getting someone else in we actually increase the chances of the drop. Why so? Due to them likely being of poor calibre and not having sufficient time to make changes? To me it sounds a little like 'hanging on to nurse for fear of something worse'. But, I'm not having a pop, I'm honestly interested in the rational. New manager bounce is a myth. NTTT podcast had a great episode a few months back with a statistic chap, this confirmed my gut feeling I genuinely think that since Matt "sold" the club to these players there is surely some loyalty & desire to perform there. Lots of clubs change manager, then the players all change - meaning (for me) a disconnect with fans. We are undoubtedly playing poorly, very poorly, this is form and is changeable it can't continue (although I accept I've been saying it for months..... but I do believe it). The players are good and MUST come good! Finally are we going to get someone who gets us and WANTS to achieve for us, or are we going to be like so many other L2 clubs with a hire & fire attitude? I also fully accept your last point though it could just be better the devil you know.
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Post by os on Dec 18, 2023 21:39:07 GMT
It would be sad to lose that status for sure but I will repeat, not at the expense of the long term future of the club. That's my priority and it should be that of the current custodians of the club too. TBH, your views are not that far removed from the points I was making. The last paragraph refers to the longevity of the club going forward, 3 seasons in the EFL at the expense of a debt we can't pay back simple isn't worth it. That is why I would like to see those with a controlling interest in the club sanction the release of the clubs full accounts. I would also like to hear a board statement on where we are and what the situation both on and off the pitch is going forward. I know you and AndyK want me to back up my decisions comments, but I don't believe it would be right to air those views in public, just to say that some non playing salaried appointments were wrong IMO. As for the squad, here is part of a PM I sent back at the end of July : we need Ben back and Eastie in midfield and them we will see what impact the new boys have. If Matt does turn this squad into a playoff one, then the club maybe looking for a new manager next season.
Today's signing looks positive, but I think this season maybe the toughest so far?Incidentally and not necessarily related, a very well known currently out of work manager was at the Palace u21 game tonight, I am not sure if his brother was with him ? ? ?
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Post by banjo on Dec 18, 2023 21:43:23 GMT
I haven't listened to the Sutton Podcast but from it one poster here is stating as fact that Matt has lost the dressing room. Is there evidence of that or is it just someone making a comment and that comment becoming someone else's truth? If it is just mere conjecture, it's not welcome and if it isn't who's the source? I did listen to the podcast. One of the guests had observed one or two of our players involved in rather heated exchanges with the bench during Saturday's match. Other of our fans have made similar observations. I don't believe that's sufficient evidence of Matt having "lost the dressing-room", and if things are going badly on the pitch then it's hardly surprising that tensions come to the surface. That said, it's not a good sign. Amber aleman it’s only my opinion on what I’ve hard and read, you can agree or not. ⚽️⚽️⚽️
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Post by pinewalker on Dec 18, 2023 22:34:23 GMT
One thing that puzzles me, slightly, is the view that although with Matt we might get relegated by getting someone else in we actually increase the chances of the drop. Why so? Due to them likely being of poor calibre and not having sufficient time to make changes? To me it sounds a little like 'hanging on to nurse for fear of something worse'. But, I'm not having a pop, I'm honestly interested in the rational. New manager bounce is a myth. NTTT podcast had a great episode a few months back with a statistic chap, this confirmed my gut feeling You will fail - with the idea of a new manager bounce being a myth - to convince Del and me. We are both Aston Villa fans as well as Sutton fans. Emery brought in a new left back who has missed the majority of games since his arrival through injury, a new raw 19 year old forward who has yet to start a league match, and Pau Torres, who has proved to be a class defender, but he stood in for Mings, who was also a class player. What has happened is inspired coaching of the same players in what was an under-performing squad. The players themselves admit they are now improved players following a different type of training and practice from anything they had experienced under Gerrard or Smith. You might have equal difficulty in convincing Evertonians that Dyche has not fired up the team he inherited to a standard they hadn't previously achieved. A new manager at Sutton might make things worse - but not worse than the last match. What is hard to believe is that the current management team know how to radically improve the players they have now - because there has been no sign of it.
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Post by suttonpodcast on Dec 19, 2023 0:19:04 GMT
New manager bounce is a myth. NTTT podcast had a great episode a few months back with a statistic chap, this confirmed my gut feeling You will fail - with the idea of a new manager bounce being a myth - to convince Del and me. Luckily for me then that I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything and just answering the question of why I feel the way I do.
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Post by Andy K on Dec 19, 2023 8:21:03 GMT
It would be sad to lose that status for sure but I will repeat, not at the expense of the long term future of the club. That's my priority and it should be that of the current custodians of the club too. TBH, your views are not that far removed from the points I was making. The last paragraph refers to the longevity of the club going forward, 3 seasons in the EFL at the expense of a debt we can't pay back simple isn't worth it. That is why I would like to see those with a controlling interest in the club sanction the release of the clubs full accounts. I would also like to hear a board statement on where we are and what the situation both on and off the pitch is going forward. I know you and AndyK want me to back up my decisions comments, but I don't believe it would be right to air those views in public, just to say that some non playing salaried appointments were wrong IMO. As for the squad, here is part of a PM I sent back at the end of July : we need Ben back and Eastie in midfield and them we will see what impact the new boys have. If Matt does turn this squad into a playoff one, then the club maybe looking for a new manager next season.
Today's signing looks positive, but I think this season maybe the toughest so far?Incidentally and not necessarily related, a very well known currently out of work manager was at the Palace u21 game tonight, I am not sure if his brother was with him ? ? ? No OS, I want to to explain your comments, not just leave them hanging. So, as expected, this is you saying that the "Director of Football" role has caused all of this, because you've not especially said anything else. I never knew one person could cause so much damage. So he's responsible for poor tactics and arguments on the pitch? If you don't think it's right to air those views in public, you just basically did.
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Post by boomboom on Dec 19, 2023 9:11:00 GMT
New manager bounce is a myth. NTTT podcast had a great episode a few months back with a statistic chap, this confirmed my gut feeling You will fail - with the idea of a new manager bounce being a myth - to convince Del and me. We are both Aston Villa fans as well as Sutton fans. Emery brought in a new left back who has missed the majority of games since his arrival through injury, a new raw 19 year old forward who has yet to start a league match, and Pau Torres, who has proved to be a class defender, but he stood in for Mings, who was also a class player. What has happened is inspired coaching of the same players in what was an under-performing squad. The players themselves admit they are now improved players following a different type of training and practice from anything they had experienced under Gerrard or Smith. You might have equal difficulty in convincing Evertonians that Dyche has not fired up the team he inherited to a standard they hadn't previously achieved. A new manager at Sutton might make things worse - but not worse than the last match. What is hard to believe is that the current management team know how to radically improve the players they have now - because there has been no sign of it. I've seen similar research, IIRC from the author of the link I posted above, which confirms what suttonpodcast has said. This demonstrates that in general there is often an improvement with a new manager but it's usually short-lived for just a few matches with the team then reverting to at or around its position under the previous man in charge. There are, of course, exceptions to that "rule" but they are only exceptions, including those you've highlighted. Whether a new manager at GGL would be an exception is something I think we won't find out, this season at least. Thanks to AmberAleman for the Companies House source in response to my query. However, the latest accounts don't show the size of our wage bill so it's difficult to judge how well Matt is faring against what might reasonably be expected. That said, MarkF makes a good point about affordability in consideration of whether or not he should be replaced.
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Post by Andy K on Dec 19, 2023 9:38:54 GMT
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Post by boomboom on Dec 19, 2023 9:46:11 GMT
Can I be the first one to admit egg on my face with my " Whether a new manager at GGL would be an exception is something I think we won't find out, this season at least" comment just a few minutes ago? Well, I just have...
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Post by os on Dec 19, 2023 21:02:06 GMT
TBH, your views are not that far removed from the points I was making. The last paragraph refers to the longevity of the club going forward, 3 seasons in the EFL at the expense of a debt we can't pay back simple isn't worth it. That is why I would like to see those with a controlling interest in the club sanction the release of the clubs full accounts. I would also like to hear a board statement on where we are and what the situation both on and off the pitch is going forward. I know you and AndyK want me to back up my decisions comments, but I don't believe it would be right to air those views in public, just to say that some non playing salaried appointments were wrong IMO. As for the squad, here is part of a PM I sent back at the end of July : we need Ben back and Eastie in midfield and them we will see what impact the new boys have. If Matt does turn this squad into a playoff one, then the club maybe looking for a new manager next season.
Today's signing looks positive, but I think this season maybe the toughest so far?Incidentally and not necessarily related, a very well known currently out of work manager was at the Palace u21 game tonight, I am not sure if his brother was with him ? ? ? No OS, I want to to explain your comments, not just leave them hanging. So, as expected, this is you saying that the "Director of Football" role has caused all of this, because you've not especially said anything else. I never knew one person could cause so much damage. So he's responsible for poor tactics and arguments on the pitch? If you don't think it's right to air those views in public, you just basically did. Events have moved on. But if I read your post correctly, you wanted me to name names and positions and not leave you hanging. You then decided to talk for me, and name names? You are correct in saying that the DOF is just one position that could not cause the damage alone. If I were you I would give mind reading a miss
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Post by Andy K on Dec 20, 2023 7:13:50 GMT
No OS, I want to to explain your comments, not just leave them hanging. So, as expected, this is you saying that the "Director of Football" role has caused all of this, because you've not especially said anything else. I never knew one person could cause so much damage. So he's responsible for poor tactics and arguments on the pitch? If you don't think it's right to air those views in public, you just basically did. Events have moved on. But if I read your post correctly, you wanted me to name names and positions and not leave you hanging. You then decided to talk for me, and name names? You are correct in saying that the DOF is just one position that could not cause the damage alone. If I were you I would give mind reading a miss Using your own words isn't mind reading os. It's the opposite. Which is why I'm asking you for clarification. I'm really sorry if you feel you're unable to for whatever reason.
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