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Post by Amber Aleman on Dec 18, 2023 14:14:05 GMT
If Matt leaves, whatever the manner of that departure, then of course the club would issue a statement. If he's staying, why would the club make any statement? There's nothing to say.
Issuing a statement backing the manager would ironically put extra pressure on him, and make the club look pretty stupid if Matt actually does quit a few weeks later.
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billy
1st team skipper
Posts: 2,645
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Post by billy on Dec 18, 2023 14:16:25 GMT
Sutton United have given us 3 seasons (so far) of league football.I don't think i remember anyone even dreaming of us getting in to the league in any of the the first 50 years or so that i followed it.
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kpinwp
1st team Player
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Post by kpinwp on Dec 18, 2023 14:45:30 GMT
If Matt leaves, whatever the manner of that departure, then of course the club would issue a statement. If he's staying, why would the club make any statement? There's nothing to say. Issuing a statement backing the manager would ironically put extra pressure on him, and make the club look pretty stupid if Matt actually does quit a few weeks later. As I said, it does put the board in an awkward situation. I appreciate that. But given the situation that we are in, I think they do need to say something, to address that. Quite what they say is, frankly, their problem. They ought to be up to it. Some guidance as to their view of the second half of the season, for example? Might be useful to the fans. Because, currently, we look pretty rudderless. As to your second para, it's up to the board and Matt to get their ducks in a row. Isn't it? And, in some senses, we as a club already look pretty stupid. So, more of that will just be some more.
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Post by Andy K on Dec 18, 2023 15:33:29 GMT
Sutton United have given us 3 seasons (so far) of league football.I don't think i remember anyone even dreaming of us getting in to the league in any of the the first 50 years or so that i followed it. I think this is possibly the best post in this entire thread.
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Post by paz on Dec 18, 2023 16:16:30 GMT
The only reason to make a club statement would be to hint to the fans and Matt, that sacking him has become a consideration. It means we will not sack him now, but we might after the next game or two.
I think if we were going to replace the manager, then that ship has sailed, and certainly before the Jan transfer window would be the last opportunity, so a replacement would be able to possibly make adjustments or bring in any players they know, loan outs and loan ins...
We decided to put complete faith in Matt, and at times there has been improvement. Let's not ignore the fact that before this game we did have a certain confidence that we might be able to nick something. Indeed that hope was smashed and now all our draws look like poor returns.
I don't think a new manager will have enough time or cash to turn things around dramatically. As it stands we will probably go down with Matt, But with an outside chance of staying up. With a new manager, our relegation would be confirmed much quicker. Unless we managed to spend on a big name with contacts over Jan.
Matt likely has a payoff clause which he may feel entitled to. This means if the board decide to sack him then it will cost money. Do they put the money into a new manager? or keep Matt and sign one or two new players? I am sure it's not easy for the board.
If Matt has lost the respect of the players now, which no one knows apart from Matt, the squad, and the coaching staff, But if that's so, then its likely Game over and a case of preparing for a safe landing in the Nat League.
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Post by wisemensay on Dec 18, 2023 16:25:10 GMT
Let's be frank here - if the board are keeping him and backing him, they should come out and say why. Yes, he will always be the man that got us promoted, and he will always be the man took us to Wembley, but 2 years is a lifetime in football circles. Forgive me for the depressing act of dragging out all the stats and all the numbers all over again, but over the last year, we're looking at: - 21 played, 3 wins, 14 points in the league in 2023-24
- 48 goals conceded in those 21 matches - the most goals conceded in the EFL this season.
- We're currently on track for 28 losses, 105 conceded and 31 points. For losses and points, that puts on a similar track to Scunthorpe United in 2021-22, who were in the middle of a complete and utter implosion, and were extraordinarily close to collapsing as a club - I'm not saying that's what will happen to us or that the club are in dire straits, I'm saying that's the standard of result we're getting. The last team to concede triple-digit goals in a league season was Doncaster Rovers in 1997-98. They finished the season 15 points off safety.
- In the last 12 months, we've conceded 4 or more on 6 separate occasions, including a 4-1 hammering by an eventually-relegated Rochdale, 4-1 against a 20th-placed Colchester United last season, 4-1 against a 19th-placed Colchester this season, and naturally, the 8-0 this weekend.
And, as I stated before, this is Matt's squad. Premier League teams get a lot of (rightful) stick, because they'll sack a manager after 3 months, when the guy has had no chance to mould the team in his shape, to make the signings needed to sign and sell players to make sure the squad matches the tactic. We are not in this boat - Matt has been here since May 2019, he's been here for 4 and a half years, and the squad is in his image. I've double-checked the club website from the last available page from before his signing, and there are only 3 of that squad still here - Jon Barden, Harry Beautyman and Craig Eastmond. This is his squad, playing his style (or at least being told to play his style) and as a result, just as much as he was lauded a hero for winning the league, equally should we be questioning and criticizing when it is going as poorly as it is. And that gets on to what I suppose was my main point - with all of the above, with the historically bad result, the form that suggests the worst League 2 side in 25 years, regular large losses against relegation contenders, with the worst defence in the EFL and a loss rate similar to a club in the middle of financial collapse, every logical step says that it's time for Matt to go. And as such, if the board take the decision to keep him, then we as fans, the ones who were here before Matt and this squad, and the ones who will be here long after Matt and this squad, we have the right to understand what it is that the board can see that says he will be the one that saves us from the big red R.
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Post by paz on Dec 18, 2023 16:27:37 GMT
Sutton United have given us 3 seasons (so far) of league football.I don't think i remember anyone even dreaming of us getting in to the league in any of the the first 50 years or so that i followed it. Very true, But it was done. We are now a league side with better players than we had as a non-league side. So while our expectations should be kept in perspective, we should still judge our team based on the fact they are league players and not non-league players. I think the vast majority of our squad are proven league-level players, bar about 3 who were the best from lower leagues. For me, while a struggle at the bottom half of the league should not come as a surprise, IMO a bottom-of-the-league finish would be an underachievement for this squad, particularly if we are relegated before the last few games of the season, which it looks like we will be.
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Post by miwebster82 on Dec 18, 2023 16:38:03 GMT
Think Saturday will be big.
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kpinwp
1st team Player
Posts: 1,245
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Post by kpinwp on Dec 18, 2023 16:44:16 GMT
Sutton United have given us 3 seasons (so far) of league football.I don't think i remember anyone even dreaming of us getting in to the league in any of the the first 50 years or so that i followed it. Very true, But it was done. We are now a league side with better players than we had as a non-league side. So while our expectations should be kept in perspective, we should still judge our team based on the fact they are league players and not non-league players. I think the vast majority of our squad are proven league-level players, bar about 3 who were the best from lower leagues. For me, while a struggle at the bottom half of the league should not come as a surprise, IMO a bottom-of-the-league finish would be an underachievement for this squad, particularly if we are relegated before the last few games of the season, which it looks like we will be. Seconded. To which I would add; What has happened in the past is of importance. But we do not live in the past, we live in the now.
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Post by paz on Dec 18, 2023 16:56:10 GMT
Very true, But it was done. We are now a league side with better players than we had as a non-league side. So while our expectations should be kept in perspective, we should still judge our team based on the fact they are league players and not non-league players. I think the vast majority of our squad are proven league-level players, bar about 3 who were the best from lower leagues. For me, while a struggle at the bottom half of the league should not come as a surprise, IMO a bottom-of-the-league finish would be an underachievement for this squad, particularly if we are relegated before the last few games of the season, which it looks like we will be. Seconded. To which I would add; What has happened in the past is of importaance. But we do not live in the past, we live in the now. Yes, I was hopeful we could stay here long enough to build more infrastructure and set in a league culture, so even if and when we go down, we have something about us to have another go at coming back up. We have indeed done remarkably well but that's in the past. I can accept a relegation battle, but being stuck at the root of the league as we have been, is poor, no getting away from that.
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Post by paz on Dec 18, 2023 16:59:34 GMT
The only reason to make a club statement would be to hint to the fans and Matt, that sacking him has become a consideration. It means we will not sack him now, but we might after the next game or two. I think if we were going to replace the manager, then that ship has sailed, and certainly before the Jan transfer window would be the last opportunity, so a replacement would be able to possibly make adjustments or bring in any players they know, loan outs and loan ins... We decided to put complete faith in Matt, and at times there has been improvement. Let's not ignore the fact that before this game we did have a certain confidence that we might be able to nick something. Indeed that hope was smashed and now all our draws look like poor returns. I don't think a new manager will have enough time or cash to turn things around dramatically. As it stands we will probably go down with Matt, But with an outside chance of staying up. With a new manager, our relegation would be confirmed much quicker. Unless we managed to spend on a big name with contacts over Jan. Matt likely has a payoff clause which he may feel entitled to. This means if the board decide to sack him then it will cost money. Do they put the money into a new manager? or keep Matt and sign one or two new players? I am sure it's not easy for the board. If Matt has lost the respect of the players now, which no one knows apart from Matt, the squad, and the coaching staff, But if that's so, then its likely Game over and a case of preparing for a safe landing in the Nat League. You say that Paz but the antics that were going on Saturday and have obviously been going on all season show me that they don’t have the backing off the Manager, I should not have to spell it out, it is pretty obvious really.⚽️⚽️⚽️ There have been times when I have seen this, more frustration from the players lashing out. Up till now, Matt has steadied the waters so to speak, but if things keep going as they are then he can only do so much. I was not at the game so did not see the goings on, I can only go by previous games...
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Post by paz on Dec 18, 2023 17:00:51 GMT
Think Saturday will be big. A win would change the mood. But that would mean scoring enough goals to win while not conceding as many
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markf
Top Performer
Posts: 3,310
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Post by markf on Dec 18, 2023 18:01:58 GMT
Sutton United have given us 3 seasons (so far) of league football.I don't think i remember anyone even dreaming of us getting in to the league in any of the the first 50 years or so that i followed it. Not often we agree Billy but can't fault this post. Been scan reading through some of this thread and the "options" available in our current situation; they may be under consideration by the decision makers but I just wonder how much financial constraints will play apart? The new investors we have had in recent years, the major shareholders are surely going to have a big input. The options offered on this thread all have financial consequences, some bigger than others. There is also the balance of ensuring the club is not put in financial jeopardy (and I will keep referring to this until any decision, if one is made, is announced). I will do so, because of a figure I was made aware of over a year ago. I have been told that the club has to build this bloody new stand by the end of the season whether we stay up or not. If that is true it is a draconian rule in our current league position. It also ties the hands further with regards to what the club can or can't do re those options. Affordability, I think is the word I may be looking for. Others on here have queried our playing budget compared to other clubs. I suspect it is pretty low in the rankings not just because we are little Sutton but because of the infrastructure improvements and the new pitch. The new stand will not be cheap even if it's a temporary structure like Crawley have. That's money that can't go towards the playing budget. As far as I am aware only Harrogate have had to do anything similar in recent seasons and they have a rich owner backing his manager son to the hilt. And these are the constraints that Matt is working under. On paper our recruitment looked decent but has proved not to be the case on the pitch not helped by a plethora of injuries some long term to key players. I am not blind as to why some on here think Matt's tenure has run its course and why they believe change is needed to have any hope of avoiding the drop. I do think the players as a collective need to look at themselves, not just because of what happened at the weekend. You can't just blame one individual. I haven't listened to the Sutton Podcast but from it one poster here is stating as fact that Matt has lost the dressing room. Is there evidence of that or is it just someone making a comment and that comment becoming someone else's truth? If it is just mere conjecture, it's not welcome and if it isn't who's the source? Going back to Billy's post that started me off on this typing journey, I too never even considered SUFC to be a candidate for an EFL club. It would be sad to lose that status for sure but I will repeat, not at the expense of the long term future of the club. That's my priority and it should be that of the current custodians of the club too.
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Post by banjo on Dec 18, 2023 18:24:11 GMT
Sutton United have given us 3 seasons (so far) of league football.I don't think i remember anyone even dreaming of us getting in to the league in any of the the first 50 years or so that i followed it. Not often we agree Billy but can't fault this post. Been scan reading through some of this thread and the "options" available in our current situation; they may be under consideration by the decision makers but I just wonder how much financial constraints will play apart? The new investors we have had in recent years, the major shareholders are surely going to have a big input. The options offered on this thread all have financial consequences, some bigger than others. There is also the balance of ensuring the club is not put in financial jeopardy (and I will keep referring to this until any decision, if one is made, is announced). I will do so, because of a figure I was made aware of over a year ago. I have been told that the club has to build this bloody new stand by the end of the season whether we stay up or not. If that is true it is a draconian rule in our current league position. It also ties the hands further with regards to what the club can or can't do re those options. Affordability, I think is the word I may be looking for. Others on here have queried our playing budget compared to other clubs. I suspect it is pretty low in the rankings not just because we are little Sutton but because of the infrastructure improvements and the new pitch. The new stand will not be cheap even if it's a temporary structure like Crawley have. That's money that can't go towards the playing budget. As far as I am aware only Harrogate have had to do anything similar in recent seasons and they have a rich owner backing his manager son to the hilt. And these are the constraints that Matt is working under. On paper our recruitment looked decent but has proved not to be the case on the pitch not helped by a plethora of injuries some long term to key players. I am not blind as to why some on here think Matt's tenure has run its course and why they believe change is needed to have any hope of avoiding the drop. I do think the players as a collective need to look at themselves, not just because of what happened at the weekend. You can't just blame one individual. I haven't listened to the Sutton Podcast but from it one poster here is stating as fact that Matt has lost the dressing room. Is there evidence of that or is it just someone making a comment and that comment becoming someone else's truth? If it is just mere conjecture, it's not welcome and if it isn't who's the source? Going back to Billy's post that started me off on this typing journey, I too never even considered SUFC to be a candidate for an EFL club. It would be sad to lose that status for sure but I will repeat, not at the expense of the long term future of the club. That's my priority and it should be that of the current custodians of the club too. Mark it’s my observation that Matt has lost the dressing room and not a source, but what apparently went on Saturday and apparently other games I would say he has lost the dressing room. Their are certainly in my opinion things that aren’t right.⚽️⚽️⚽️ I
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Post by Amber Aleman on Dec 18, 2023 18:48:02 GMT
I haven't listened to the Sutton Podcast but from it one poster here is stating as fact that Matt has lost the dressing room. Is there evidence of that or is it just someone making a comment and that comment becoming someone else's truth? If it is just mere conjecture, it's not welcome and if it isn't who's the source? I did listen to the podcast. One of the guests had observed one or two of our players involved in rather heated exchanges with the bench during Saturday's match. Other of our fans have made similar observations. I don't believe that's sufficient evidence of Matt having "lost the dressing-room", and if things are going badly on the pitch then it's hardly surprising that tensions come to the surface. That said, it's not a good sign.
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