kpinwp
1st team Player
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Post by kpinwp on Mar 29, 2023 19:46:34 GMT
However, each Summer, bigger fish will look to lure away our best players. Sooner or later a much bigger club than ourselves is going to offer Matt an opportunity to fund his ambitions in a way his talent justifies. That will happen whether we're a "community" club or not. In reality, all but a tiny handful of clubs in English, if not European or even world, football are "selling" clubs. Likewise for managers moving on. If Matt continues (operative word) to be a successful manager at this level then ulitimately a bigger/better resourced club will come in for him. But, he has only been successful at this level for 2 years. Establishing himself, really. And while he looks to be a very decent D2 manager I wouldn't say there is yet any hard evidence that he might be equally successful higher up the leagues. I'd also consider that to be true of the vast majority of our players. This is not to pull anyone down. They have (all) done extremely well in making the transition from Non League to D2 which, on current showing, looks to now be our 'natural' level. No mean feat. But I'm not sure how tempting a bait any of our lot might seem to much bigger fish.
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Post by backhome2016 on Mar 29, 2023 19:52:37 GMT
And while he looks to be a very decent D2 manager I wouldn't say there is yet any hard evidence that he might be equally successful higher up the leagues. I'd also consider that to be true of the vast majority of our players. This is not to pull anyone down. They have (all) done extremely well in making the transition from Non League to D2 which, on current showing, looks to now be our 'natural' level. No mean feat. But I'm not sure how tempting a bait any of our lot might seem to much bigger fish. I have thought this too. Apart from Harry Beautyman carving out a decent career higher up the leagues, in recent seasons not many of our players have moved on up and been a success.
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Post by Andy K on Mar 30, 2023 10:17:14 GMT
Andy is perfectly justified to feel rightly proud that we have all but secured a third season in the EFL - and both seasons so far we have done much more than just 'survive'. However, I ask myself how long can we continue to do this while remaining a small community club run largely by (excellent) volunteers. Everyone associated with the club has done a marvelous job to get us into the EFL - and so far keep us there. However, each Summer, bigger fish will look to lure away our best players. Sooner or later a much bigger club than ourselves is going to offer Matt an opportunity to fund his ambitions in a way his talent justifies. Sooner or later our ground - which is still in truth a non-league ground that we have improved (enormously) in order to be able to tick the necessary boxes - is potentially going to limit our opportunities to grow unless we move away from Gander Green Lane. Each season that a Scunthorpe or Rochdale is relegated and replaced by a Stockport or Wrexham, the competition is going to become that much more difficult the next season. We have all grown up loving Sutton for being the friendly community club that it is -but can we realistically remain like that and maintain a long time EFL existence - or even progress beyond that? Would we rather retain our historical identity even if that increases the risk of us falling back into non-league. If we were relegated, would we be able to survive in the National League or might that be the beginning of a downward spiral as it has been for a number of others? What changes might we need to make to become another 'Brentford' rather than risk becoming another Macclesfield? I'm sorry if this post sounds quite depressing - it isn't meant to be. I just think that sooner or later the club is going to need to decide what it wants to be in 5 or 10 years time - and what it is prepared to do (or not prepared to do) in order to make that happen. It may well be that our excellent directors already have plans in place for all of this. In terms of Matt, I get the impression that he doesn't want to go anywhere. The circumstances of how we are set up means that he is probably under the least pressure of any manager in the football league and he's not especially interested in moving to a club, and to be honest, us being a middle table L2 club will probably mean clubs won't actually be hugely interested in him either - clubs invariably change managers when they're in trouble (with a very few exceptions when they've lost a manager when they are not struggling) and as a manager Matt has no experience whatsover at fighting a relegation battle (thank heavens). It's very much a Gareth Ainsworth situation here. Adored by the club, they adore the club and he only moved after 11 years when he was given the chance to manage the club he was most successful at. That won't be the case for Matt, unless of course Matt gets the opportunity to manage Spurs. He may move on however when he thinks that he can't take the club any further, and we're a long long way from that point. In terms of moving away from GGL, again we're not close to that whatsoever. Usually for league games, we are running at 60% capacity, and as GarethL eloquenty said, the grounds footprint is large enough for expansion. Indeed I did hear that potentially we could build up to around a 17,500 stadium on the same site. Becoming another "Macclesfield" won't happen under the current regime. They are where they are because they spent too much money. As is usually the case for any club that falls through the leagues. Scunthorpe and Oldham last season both were relegated because they were financial basket cases. Crawley are in danger for the same reason. We're a really well run club, and always have been. That's much more important that usually gets credit for. I understand your concerns, but in all honesty, a lot of it is unfounded.
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Post by is4 on Mar 30, 2023 10:48:59 GMT
Hi Andy. Can I ask you a question regarding your sentence about the size of the ground. I am I right in thinking that the ground is / was leased from the council?Or do the club own the stadium? And that to go to 17500 capacity will need council/planning permission?
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Post by Andy K on Mar 30, 2023 11:00:06 GMT
Hi Andy. Can I ask you a question regarding your sentence about the size of the ground. I am I right in thinking that the ground is / was leased from the council?Or do the club own the stadium? And that to go to 17500 capacity will need council/planning permission? There will be others on this forum who know the detail more than me, but I believe we do lease the ground from the council (which was renewed a few years ago for another 100 years). Any increase in capacity or building of new structures will have to go through not just the usual council approval, but also a plethora of safety regulations specific to football grounds. Of course this would apply to any ground, either an improvement or a new one, rather than just being specific to GGL or its status.
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Post by is4 on Mar 30, 2023 11:04:47 GMT
Thanks Andy for your post / reply. I thought I was right!
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Post by sallycat on Mar 30, 2023 13:01:13 GMT
An interesting discussion with a lot of very good points raised.
I'm not saying any of the concerns are unfounded, but personally I'm not overly worried. Generally the clubs that embark on a meteoric rise and then crash and burn do so because they've been living outside their means and the money has inevitably run out and/or they've reached a level that requires more than just pots of wonga to succeed. Our rise may have been sudden and unexpected but at least it used only sustainable methods. I would therefore be very surprised if any future relegation did lead to a continuing downward trajectory. What we have now is more than sufficient to survive in the National League even if it doesn't keep us in the EFL (which hopefully it will!). Unmanageable bad debts, supporters walking away in protest and conflicts about the running of the club are the sorts of things that lead to free fall. We don't have that sort of problem and hopefully never will.
As for the weaker sides going down and stronger ones coming up, well, not being funny but isn't that how football normally works? I don't think the league is significantly stronger than it was last season. Don't forget the same thing happens at the other end of the table too. Personally I don't think any of the teams that finished above us last season were too good for League 2 and with all due respect none of the sides relegated from League 1 last season have been anything particularly special this season.
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Post by davep on Mar 30, 2023 13:08:29 GMT
I'm sure Mark F or others can correct me if I'm wrong - but I believe that the site on which our ground is located was originally a school - and the land on which it was build was gifted to the Council by Thomas Wall of Walls Sausages fame. The Council subsequently build the Borough Sports Ground - as much for athletics as football (Sutton and Cheam Harriers) - and subsequently leased it to the football club. Now I'm really off topic Oohaah !!
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Post by davef on Mar 30, 2023 13:48:22 GMT
It was originally the Adult School playing field rather than the actual school (I think, it’s a long time since we wrote the centenary book). The club leases the stadium from LBS. Building works would require planning consent irrespective of who owns the site. Technically, most changes also need separate landlord’s consent but that shouldn’t be a problem so long as we use it as a football stadium.
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Post by terrier on Mar 30, 2023 14:08:12 GMT
When can we expect to hear a detailed update on what ground developments will go ahead this summer?
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Post by is4 on Mar 30, 2023 15:53:51 GMT
Further to terriers last post. Has the club got the finances to go forward with any ground upgrades?
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Post by is4 on Mar 30, 2023 17:02:58 GMT
Can I thank all posters for their posts regarding the history of the ground and stadium.
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Post by Amber Aleman on Mar 30, 2023 17:28:39 GMT
I rather think the questions posed above are (a) not for this thread and (b) don't have straightforward answers.
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oohaah
Top Performer
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Post by oohaah on Mar 31, 2023 8:29:38 GMT
I'm sure Mark F or others can correct me if I'm wrong - but I believe that the site on which our ground is located was originally a school - and the land on which it was build was gifted to the Council by Thomas Wall of Walls Sausages fame. The Council subsequently build the Borough Sports Ground - as much for athletics as football (Sutton and Cheam Harriers) - and subsequently leased it to the football club. Now I'm really off topic Oohaah !! Don't forget the ice-cream - Mine's a 99!
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markf
Top Performer
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Post by markf on Mar 31, 2023 12:38:21 GMT
This may be the wrong thread for some but as it has metamorphosed into a dual subject content, this:
Thomas Wall gave various pieces of land to the people of Sutton for the uses of recreation.
Assuming he didn't want to nor have the time to administrate the usage this fell under the jurisdiction of the local council.
The piece of land we now know as the VBS, was part of Collingwood Road Rec but had some level of enclosure to separate it. It was known as The Adult Ground as it was initially used by the Adult School for sports. To say it was set up initially for athletics could therefore be argued against.
Sutton did use it for a season before WWI but the AS formerd their own football team leaving U's to search for alternatives. They used The Find off of Mulgrave Road and a pitch on London Road, possibly where the old London Transport Ground was which for younger readers is now the park adjacent to Sainsbury's in North Cheam. That's a guess though as there would have been plenty of open land in that area back then.
After WWI and for the 1919/20 season, Sutton took up what was to become permanent residence sharing the facility with athletics. I have no idea when the local athletics club, Sutton Harriers was formed but they were long term users until the new facility was built opposite St Helier hospital.
The ground has hosted baseball and cricket in the past too.
Thomas Wall also donated the land which is now Carshalton's ground while a recreation ground used for football (or at least was) tucked behind the flats on St Helier Roundabout/Green Lane is named after him.
That's as much as I know or at least remember off the top of my head.
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