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Post by Andy K on Oct 22, 2023 10:03:20 GMT
I tried missing yesterday's match, to see if my 100% record of only missing Sutton Wins would hold. No, so I have only seen the highlights and heard Matt's interview. "Our defence was all over the place" Matt said. Before you get the idea all 4 must be at fault - it only takes one player not to be in the right place for the other Sutton defenders to attempt to cover and leave other opponents unmarked. And that player is Sam Hart. The highlights show why Sam gets picked - an overlapping run down the left wing, he looks up and centres accurately and Sutton score. But he is the left back! Look for him in the 2nd and 3rd Morcambe goals. Sorry Matt, but this man does not have the basic instincts needed to position himself in the left back role. PS to the management for the next transfer window if we have not found a left back in the club. At the other end of the table Louie Barry is scoring freely for Stockport. He is on loan from Villa who prefer to loan players out than have them in the U21s. Villa U21s have 2 good left-backs who have to take turns now. Worth a call. So you must say the same about Joe Kizzi then. Because the issues you suggest about Hart have been mirrored game after game with Kizzi. Or is this you just thinking one player isn't good enough?
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Post by Del on Oct 22, 2023 10:16:28 GMT
I tried missing yesterday's match, to see if my 100% record of only missing Sutton Wins would hold. No, so I have only seen the highlights and heard Matt's interview. "Our defence was all over the place" Matt said. Before you get the idea all 4 must be at fault - it only takes one player not to be in the right place for the other Sutton defenders to attempt to cover and leave other opponents unmarked. And that player is Sam Hart. The highlights show why Sam gets picked - an overlapping run down the left wing, he looks up and centres accurately and Sutton score. But he is the left back! Look for him in the 2nd and 3rd Morcambe goals. Sorry Matt, but this man does not have the basic instincts needed to position himself in the left back role. PS to the management for the next transfer window if we have not found a left back in the club. At the other end of the table Louie Barry is scoring freely for Stockport. He is on loan from Villa who prefer to loan players out than have them in the U21s. Villa U21s have 2 good left-backs who have to take turns now. Worth a call. So you must say the same about Joe Kizzi then. Because the issues you suggest about Hart have been mirrored game after game with Kizzi. Or is this you just thinking one player isn't good enough? I'm also not sure Kizzi is as good as he has been in previous seasons and wonder why we haven't seen more of Jackson.
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Post by paz on Oct 22, 2023 11:17:35 GMT
I think we are seeing improvement inch by inch, in some ways our play felt more solid yesterday and we kept possession better. But are we going to improve enough and quick enough? This is the question. And will the players remain eye to eye with Matt during this time.
And of the day its another loss, and at home. I cant see us winning away this season so home is vital.
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Post by Andy K on Oct 22, 2023 11:19:35 GMT
So you must say the same about Joe Kizzi then. Because the issues you suggest about Hart have been mirrored game after game with Kizzi. Or is this you just thinking one player isn't good enough? I'm also not sure Kizzi is as good as he has been in previous seasons and wonder why we haven't seen more of Jackson. I don't disagree. Nor has Goodliffe by a country mile or Milsom. In fact, none have. So I don't understand the logic of saying one player is the issue. Sam Hart wasn't even on the bench at Swindon, where we conceded 5. Or at Accrington where we conceded 4. The issues we have in defence are much more entrenched and blaming one player is sheer folly.
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Post by sufc1898 on Oct 22, 2023 11:36:40 GMT
I would play this defensive unit for Wrexham
Arnold - Jackson - John - Sowunmi - Hart
Mix it up a little bit.
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Post by Andy K on Oct 22, 2023 11:40:29 GMT
I would play this defensive unit for Wrexham Arnold - Jackson - John - Sowunmi - Hart Mix it up a little bit. I expect coming so soon after this defeat, you may be partially right in terms of squad management
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kpinwp
1st team Player
Posts: 1,245
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Post by kpinwp on Oct 22, 2023 11:42:16 GMT
Haha, the old line of "it is only xxx" month. It was only September before and now it is only October. I look forward to the "it is only April" comments in 6 months time. Not sure how changing the manager would make things worse? We might lose more games? We might concede more goals? We might score less goals? There isn't much worse you can get than 2 wins and 1 draw in 14 matches. It also might make things better. I don't think the players are bad for this level, although we have a serious lack of decent central midfielders, and feel a new manager could get more out of them by playing a more attacking style of play. Asking players like Omari Patrick to get back and defend and having him as one of your covering players at a corner when he can't defend to save his life is ridiculous and clearly isn't working. I don't support Matt Gray, I support Sutton United FC and managers and players come and go. I support them whilst they are employed by SUFC but for me it is time for a change as putting out the exact same team that failed so dismally last week to play this week and expecting a different outcome is just insane. I don't think getting rid of a manager who has been failing for us for quite some time now over the end of last season and the start of this one is panicking. The players might be working hard and battling but the likes of Bouzanis, Goodliffe and Clay shouldn't be anywhere near the starting XI at present as their form doesn't deserve it. All 3 have cost us with individual errors in the past two games alone. Wasn’t it the same team that beat Walsall 4-0 last time out at home? I completely understand people wanting a change of manager. I just like us doing it differently and giving it time. No doubt any other league club would have changed by now - as Tranmere, Colchester have. To me we have to do things differently to other clubs to succeed at this level which is above our current natural level. If Matt gets through this we have a chance for long term consolidation as a league club. I can’t believe the board will change so asking for it after every loss is a waste of time, though again it is every poster’s prerogative. If we’re going to compare it to business then you’re essentially trying to get rid of the man who has worked incredibly hard heading up the business, probably trebled turnover due to performance and now want rid after a few months downturn. No way in business would you be that short term in outlook, it’s a football thing and fashion which we don’t need to follow. I understand what you're saying and think you make one of the better cases for maintaining the status quo (and I frequently agree with your posts, not that you need my approval). But I think you're misjudging this. I don't understand, at the risk of repeating myself, where this luxury of 'needs more time' is coming from? Very few people are expecting us to get anything out of our next two games, to start with. The emergency, and that's what it is, is now, not pending. As you say, Matt has been instrumental in building us up as business. But your conclusion that L2 is not our natural level is symptomatic of the fatalism that I've previously mentioned. We need to work and to fight to ensure that this is our natural level. That is the project now. And a manager who is (now) not coping with the situation is not going to be enough. And if we do not act soon then the largest part of what we have gained under him will be lost. Four or five (?) managers of other L2 teams have already been relieved of duty this 'early' in the season. And all of those clubs are in a better position than us. We cannot allow some kind of tweedy-snail-amateur-thinking slowness to sink our collective ship. And as mentioned elsewhere, the bottom line is that we are Sutton Utd. fans, not Matt Gray fans. Until the Salford match I was very much of the 'keep Matt' persuasion. What I saw changed my mind. Walsall made me wonder. Yesterday confirmed (for me) the direness of the situation. It's a shame, a real shame, but we need a change at the top.
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Post by boomboom on Oct 22, 2023 12:11:17 GMT
If we’re going to compare it to business then you’re essentially trying to get rid of the man who has worked incredibly hard heading up the business, probably trebled turnover due to performance and now want rid after a few months downturn. I'm not going to comment on the managerial situation - which has been done to death - but feel compelled to respond to that which I've highlighted. Two seasons ago we finished 8th, missing the playoffs by a whisker, with 76 points. Last season, it was 14th place, with 58 points. This season we're rock bottom, 24th out of 24th (impossible to be any lower unless we were expelled mid-season!) and on course for a meagre 23 points. "A few months downturn" is, I'm afraid, a gross distortion of reality. More accurately, it's a catastrophic decline over a longer period.
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Post by Stewart on Oct 22, 2023 12:20:24 GMT
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Post by pinewalker on Oct 22, 2023 13:40:30 GMT
I tried missing yesterday's match, to see if my 100% record of only missing Sutton Wins would hold. No, so I have only seen the highlights and heard Matt's interview. "Our defence was all over the place" Matt said. Before you get the idea all 4 must be at fault - it only takes one player not to be in the right place for the other Sutton defenders to attempt to cover and leave other opponents unmarked. And that player is Sam Hart. The highlights show why Sam gets picked - an overlapping run down the left wing, he looks up and centres accurately and Sutton score. But he is the left back! Look for him in the 2nd and 3rd Morcambe goals. Sorry Matt, but this man does not have the basic instincts needed to position himself in the left back role. PS to the management for the next transfer window if we have not found a left back in the club. At the other end of the table Louie Barry is scoring freely for Stockport. He is on loan from Villa who prefer to loan players out than have them in the U21s. Villa U21s have 2 good left-backs who have to take turns now. Worth a call. So you must say the same about Joe Kizzi then. Because the issues you suggest about Hart have been mirrored game after game with Kizzi. Or is this you just thinking one player isn't good enough? I accept your point that Joe has not been as effective this season as he was last season, but I haven't felt that U's were seeing players come through a gaping hole where Joe should have been - which is how I see it with Sam. I hope you agree U's right flank has not been as big an open route to goal as Us left flank. The collective highlights point that way.
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Post by garethl on Oct 22, 2023 13:45:13 GMT
Wasn’t it the same team that beat Walsall 4-0 last time out at home? I completely understand people wanting a change of manager. I just like us doing it differently and giving it time. No doubt any other league club would have changed by now - as Tranmere, Colchester have. To me we have to do things differently to other clubs to succeed at this level which is above our current natural level. If Matt gets through this we have a chance for long term consolidation as a league club. I can’t believe the board will change so asking for it after every loss is a waste of time, though again it is every poster’s prerogative. If we’re going to compare it to business then you’re essentially trying to get rid of the man who has worked incredibly hard heading up the business, probably trebled turnover due to performance and now want rid after a few months downturn. No way in business would you be that short term in outlook, it’s a football thing and fashion which we don’t need to follow. I understand what you're saying and think you make one of the better cases for maintaining the status quo (and I frequently agree with your posts, not that you need my approval). But I think you're misjudging this. I don't understand, at the risk of repeating myself, where this luxury of 'needs more time' is coming from? Very few people are expecting us to get anything out of our next two games, to start with. The emergency, and that's what it is, is now, not pending. As you say, Matt has been instrumental in building us up as business. But your conclusion that L2 is not our natural level is symptomatic of the fatalism that I've previously mentioned. We need to work and to fight to ensure that this is our natural level. That is the project now. And a manager who is (now) not coping with the situation is not going to be enough. And if we do not act soon then the largest part of what we have gained under him will be lost. Four or five (?) managers of other L2 teams have already been relieved of duty this 'early' in the season. And all of those clubs are in a better position than us. We cannot allow some kind of tweedy-snail-amateur-thinking slowness to sink our collective ship. And as mentioned elsewhere, the bottom line is that we are Sutton Utd. fans, not Matt Gray fans. Until the Salford match I was very much of the 'keep Matt' persuasion. What I saw changed my mind. Walsall made me wonder. Yesterday confirmed (for me) the direness of the situation. It's a shame, a real shame, but we need a change at the top. We had 2,400 home fans yesterday? In ground say 1,800 - 2,000 maximum. We don’t as a town really ‘deserve’ this level, the support doesn’t warrant it. As soon as it has got a bit tough (which we expected from a playing standpoint in the league) a load of fans have disappeared. The work of volunteers and mainly Matt and staff (including players) got us here. So yes I say give them the chance to decide what’s best for the club, they deserve that trust. If we go down we’ll be relying on those same people so again who are we to tell them how to do things? You are correct we don’t have much time but I actually don’t think we’re that far away from getting it right. I’m not opposed to some criticism of what is going on, the goals we have conceded have been poor, we have to get better. Matt has to find a way to make us harder to score against and quickly.
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Post by Amber Aleman on Oct 22, 2023 13:52:56 GMT
If the club does part company with Matt (and presumably Jason as well), who would want to succeed him? The available managers would probably be either those who've been sacked by other EFL clubs, or those in non-League who lack experience of this level of football. Matt has the advantage of having recruited the players and knowing them.
I still think the likelihood is that we'll be relegated, but I'm also doubtful that a change of manager would significantly improve our chances of staying up. A new manager would have to wait until January to overhaul the squad, and even then there will be few available players of the right standard who'd want to join a struggling side.
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Post by garethl on Oct 22, 2023 13:57:35 GMT
If we’re going to compare it to business then you’re essentially trying to get rid of the man who has worked incredibly hard heading up the business, probably trebled turnover due to performance and now want rid after a few months downturn. I'm not going to comment on the managerial situation - which has been done to death - but feel compelled to respond to that which I've highlighted. Two seasons ago we finished 8th, missing the playoffs by a whisker, with 76 points. Last season, it was 14th place, with 58 points. This season we're rock bottom, 24th out of 24th (impossible to be any lower unless we were expelled mid-season!) and on course for a meagre 23 points. "A few months downturn" is, I'm afraid, a gross distortion of reality. More accurately, it's a catastrophic decline over a longer period. I fundamentally disagree with what you are saying. For long periods last season we were barely a hair’s whisker from the prior season in terms of points. We finished 14th which is more than fine for us. Yes this season has been very disappointing so far.
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kpinwp
1st team Player
Posts: 1,245
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Post by kpinwp on Oct 22, 2023 15:02:22 GMT
I understand what you're saying and think you make one of the better cases for maintaining the status quo (and I frequently agree with your posts, not that you need my approval). But I think you're misjudging this. I don't understand, at the risk of repeating myself, where this luxury of 'needs more time' is coming from? Very few people are expecting us to get anything out of our next two games, to start with. The emergency, and that's what it is, is now, not pending. As you say, Matt has been instrumental in building us up as business. But your conclusion that L2 is not our natural level is symptomatic of the fatalism that I've previously mentioned. We need to work and to fight to ensure that this is our natural level. That is the project now. And a manager who is (now) not coping with the situation is not going to be enough. And if we do not act soon then the largest part of what we have gained under him will be lost. Four or five (?) managers of other L2 teams have already been relieved of duty this 'early' in the season. And all of those clubs are in a better position than us. We cannot allow some kind of tweedy-snail-amateur-thinking slowness to sink our collective ship. And as mentioned elsewhere, the bottom line is that we are Sutton Utd. fans, not Matt Gray fans. Until the Salford match I was very much of the 'keep Matt' persuasion. What I saw changed my mind. Walsall made me wonder. Yesterday confirmed (for me) the direness of the situation. It's a shame, a real shame, but we need a change at the top. We had 2,400 home fans yesterday? In ground say 1,800 - 2,000 maximum. We don’t as a town really ‘deserve’ this level, the support doesn’t warrant it. As soon as it has got a bit tough (which we expected from a playing standpoint in the league) a load of fans have disappeared. The work of volunteers and mainly Matt and staff (including players) got us here. So yes I say give them the chance to decide what’s best for the club, they deserve that trust. If we go down we’ll be relying on those same people so again who are we to tell them how to do things? You are correct we don’t have much time but I actually don’t think we’re that far away from getting it right. I’m not opposed to some criticism of what is going on, the goals we have conceded have been poor, we have to get better. Matt has to find a way to make us harder to score against and quickly. I would say that I respect and like the manner in which you think more than I feel that this thinking will lead to a beneficial result for the club. When we came up I fully expected that battling our way in the bottom third of L2 would be the norm. Which is not the same as the freefall that we are now in. But being up in L2, as has been pointed out by other posters on various threads, puts us into a different ballgame (no pun intended), a different ethos, a different world. Decisions may need to be made more quickly and more ruthlessly to ensure our survival. And, as someone very pertinently pointed out (apols for not remembering who), if we do get relegated what odds that we ever come back up again? Or how many years? Of which latter point, still way too much fatalism about that prospect on here. I just do not understand that attitude.
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Post by ggl on Oct 22, 2023 15:36:26 GMT
What is crystal clear to me on this forum are two things . Firstly we all seem to like our manager as a person and are all extremely grateful for everything that he has achieved here and always will be . He is a club legend and I do not use that term lightly . The second is that there are now two camps on this website and on the terraces between those that think he should go and those that think he should be given more time . Personally I think he should go and go very soon , but even if he were sacked ( not likely because the board seem to be in denial of our plight ) I think we will still probably go down BUT at least it would give us a fighting chance of staying up . People ask who would want to manage SUFC , well I’m guessing there would be a queue of tried and tested managers and up and coming ones who would all see the potential our wonderful club has to offer ( including never getting sacked ! ). For me a new manager would bring fresh ideas , new tactics and training methods and hopefully lots of football contacts with which to tap into the loan market . What really disappoints me is this attitude that the next two games are lost already , why should they be ? If we as supporters feel this how many of the players feel the same too ? We all agree on paper we have players more than capable of being successful in this league , we’ll if that is the case then the problem is the manager and his tactics , training etc . A new manager with fresh ideas could change everything . We were all buoyed by the signing of Gape , even though he is not yet match fit , so imagine what a new manager would do for confidence …. especially for the players who are most in need of a lift .
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