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Post by Stewart on Oct 30, 2015 17:29:41 GMT
Jeez, I do wonder what the hell people expect. It is an old ground and they provided seating and terracing (eventually) and toilets and a tea hut. From what I could tell the facilities they provided were no worse than what we provide at GGL. I don't know about their disabled facilities as I don't use them but doubt they were any worse than ours TBH (what are ours? Just a disabled toilet at the Collingwood Road end from what I can tell). In what way was it a throw back to the 60s? Because we were segregated? I found all the stewards friendly that I dealt with and didn't feel intimidated or threatened at all from either their staff or their fans. I think you are doing them a disservice there. I said it before the game.There was absolutely no need for segregation.We have been there before without segregation and there has been no hint of trouble.Non League football is all about fans from both sides mixing and not tribalism. It is possible the local police had a say in the matter.
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Post by johnnie1 on Oct 30, 2015 17:39:33 GMT
Aldershot have had problems with the "A Company" in the past, no idea if they're still active now they're in the Conference but this could have played a part I guess
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Post by Del on Oct 30, 2015 19:31:43 GMT
I said it before the game.There was absolutely no need for segregation.We have been there before without segregation and there has been no hint of trouble.Non League football is all about fans from both sides mixing and not tribalism. It is possible the local police had a say in the matter. Ahh.I did warn them you were coming Stewart.
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Post by os on Oct 30, 2015 20:34:20 GMT
I wasn't going to answer 'medibots' rather eloquently put post, but I will come back on yours. At no time did I suggest that all females would have a problem with the type of atmosphere we experienced on Saturday, and the same can be said of any other group. However there are a number of people within those groups who find it difficult. Yes there are also disabled people that require special arrangements, however there is a significant number of people that are sandwiched in the middle. It is not practical to ask each and every person what their requirements are, but it is possible to football more friendly for them. I am not sure if you were with your child, however imagine how difficult that situation would be for a young family with a baby in a buggy. A parent of a child with Autism, and remember this is huge spectrum with varying needs. Or a person of advancing years who finds the atmosphere too much for them, you simply cannot ask all these 'individuals' what their needs are, and shepherd them away to some enclosure somewhere. If you want more people to come to football you have to set out to make the experience welcoming by default, not as a added extra if you ask. Many people will not ask, they will simply not come again, and that is why our sport remains mainly single male orientated. I agree with most of this, but I'm still genuinely curious as to why you thought those conditions were unsuitable for (some) women, in particular. It could easily be that I'm missing something a lot of women (but not me) are thinking. I'm autistic myself, actually, and hear what you're saying. Like a lot of autistic people, I get easily overwhelmed in packed, crowded places. So I definitely get that one. I wouldn't bring a buggy to a football game myself, but I understand that some people have no choice. For example, I assume that a lot of people with physical disabilities or bad backs wouldn't be able to carry a baby in a sling or baby carrier like I do. There are so many things to think about when you are trying to be inclusive! I'm a strong advocate for trying one's best to cater for everyone as far as possible, even if there are so many different things to take into account for so many different people. It's a very hard job. Like you say, one has to think these things through beforehand - the key is not to try and ask/cater to every individual in advance, which isn't possible. It's having the flexibility to make adjustments when needed. TBH, I don't think, Nick, you or me are really that far apart on this, your right its difficult to write down every possible combination of person that might find a situation uncomfortable. Yes I included women/female because they are still a minority group within a male dominated environment. You grew up around football, and its second nature to you, I remember the (fictional) scene from 'Fever Pitch' when he takes her to her first match and she is standing on the North Bank being push and shoved in all directions. Although you may think this is sexist, I think men are better able in general to deal with that than a women (not all). I think this is partially a reason as to why our sport is so male dominated. I think we have moved away from Aldershot as such, they were great on the day, and they had restrictions placed on them. The question is, is that right, is that want we want to see should we get promoted, or should we/our club continue to push the, non segregated, family day approach wherever possible etc?
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Post by sallycat on Oct 30, 2015 20:46:48 GMT
No, sorry OS but you're wrong there. I did not grow up around football. I wasn't even really into it until I was in my teens. Nobody in my family but me is, or ever has been, a football fan. I had no childhood friends who liked football. One day in the mid 90s, I just decided to get into football and see what the fuss was about; I started turning up at GGL - on my own, mind - and fell head over heels in love with it And you think men are more able to deal with pushing, shoving crowds than women?! You must be bloody joking. If you're going to insist on thinking in stereotypes, whom do you most associate with shopping, a pastime I personally detest because of all the pushing, shoving crowds that I've never really been subjected to at football? If the only data point you can think of to back up your point is a fictional one, you might need to think again! Sadly, the main thing that I and other women I know suffer from in the football world is sexism and stereotyping - something that even you, who clearly mean well in this thread (and I honestly don't want to knock that), are amply demonstrating. I know you are trying to be constructive so I'm sorry if it looks like I'm taking you apart, but I'm afraid you have missed the point in terms of women's needs!
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Post by os on Oct 30, 2015 21:00:54 GMT
No, sorry OS but you're wrong there. I did not grow up around football. I wasn't even really into it until I was in my teens. Nobody in my family but me is, or ever has been, a football fan. I had no childhood friends who liked football. One day in the mid 90s, I just decided to get into football and see what the fuss was about; I started turning up at GGL - on my own, mind - and fell head over heels in love with it And you think men are more able to deal with pushing, shoving crowds than women?! You must be bloody joking. If you're going to insist on thinking in stereotypes, whom do you most associate with shopping, a pastime I personally detest because of all the pushing, shoving crowds that I've never really been subjected to at football? If the only data point you can think of to back up your point is a fictional one, you might need to think again! Sadly, the main thing that I and other women I know suffer from in the football world is sexism and stereotyping - something that even you, who clearly mean well in this thread (and I honestly don't want to knock that), are amply demonstrating. I know you are trying to be constructive so I'm sorry if it looks like I'm taking you apart, but I'm afraid you have missed the point in terms of women's needs! I respect your opinion on this, but we are not going to agree I know how my wife felt on Saturday, and another female supporter asked if they could join us at halftime, so I cannot be imagining it.
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Post by Del on Oct 30, 2015 21:11:11 GMT
Women at football ! Whatever next ? Next they will want to drive cars & vote !!!!!!!!!! Anyone remember that really aggressive woman who used to follow the team & punched one of her own fans on the terraces ?
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Post by os on Oct 30, 2015 21:33:14 GMT
Women at football ! Whatever next ? Next they will want to drive cars & vote !!!!!!!!!! Anyone remember that really aggressive woman who used to follow the team & punched one of her own fans on the terraces ? Now I refuse to be drawn in to this one
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Post by johnnie1 on Oct 30, 2015 22:21:26 GMT
Anybody see football fight club the other week? Included a 17 year old girl from Hamilton's firm
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Post by sallycat on Oct 30, 2015 22:37:59 GMT
I know we're not going to agree, OS. I'm only a woman, what would I know about women's needs and opinions? I'm sorry to hear your wife had a bad experience though
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Post by bornatotter on Oct 30, 2015 22:45:15 GMT
Aldershot have had problems with the "A Company" in the past, no idea if they're still active now they're in the Conference but this could have played a part I guess I doubt it . The leaders of the so called A Company all got put away for a serious stretch a long time ago. And that was that for them. Before them there were the East Bank Boot Boys and anyone at GGL for the cup game in 87 will remember that Aldershot were a handful and had a right old rep and still have . Their FA cup away game at Portsmouth last term was mad by all accounts with them taking 3000 and causing some real chaos. This game was always going to be segregated and rightly so in my view. What were they going to do? Give us the East Bank while they paraded round to the other end at half time where there was no space anyway? Other than not giving us enough space at the start due to some poor intelligence, which was soon sorted without any real problems, and the result of course this was a great away day. Had a couple in the Crimea before the game and despite dire warnings on some forums the Shots lot in there were sound and friendly. Bromley the week before weren't allowed to use the Phoenix Bar - we were - and had to go through a right old palava to get in and weren't allowed to move about at all. Mustn't grumble, hey?
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